It works! Open letter..... part 2

[oniman7]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I am willing to put on such an entertaining show that it will sell drinks. I have accepted that if I want to play my music in a bar, that is what I am stuck with.

I will NEVER pitch alcohol to people. Alcohol is poison, and most people who come to bars drink far too much of it. Every year, thousands of people are killed in drunk-driving fatalities; thousands more destroy their organs; and millions destroy their lives. I have lost a lot of people I care about due to liquor. And I only play in bars because we are forced to.

I know that will give plenty of you reason to criticize me, and please, FEEL FREE. I don't mind at all. I am unhappy that the reason I am playing music is to sell alcohol. I wish it was just to entertain people. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and I assure you, I will go to my grave without encouraging anyone to take a drink, or do a shot, or whatever.

There are opportunities for you doing weddings, casino gigs, birthday parties, fairs, festivals, fundraising, events, and that sort of thing.

I see and appreciate your perspective. I would probably pitch alcohol if it meant bringing home an extra $50 that night. For you to choose not do so, there are many events listed such as above where your goal actually is to entertain the audience (most of the time at least).

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I am willing to put on such an entertaining show that it will sell drinks. I have accepted that if I want to play my music in a bar, that is what I am stuck with.

I will NEVER pitch alcohol to people. Alcohol is poison, and most people who come to bars drink far too much of it. Every year, thousands of people are killed in drunk-driving fatalities; thousands more destroy their organs; and millions destroy their lives. I have lost a lot of people I care about due to liquor. And I only play in bars because we are forced to.

I know that will give plenty of you reason to criticize me, and please, FEEL FREE. I don't mind at all. I am unhappy that the reason I am playing music is to sell alcohol. I wish it was just to entertain people. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and I assure you, I will go to my grave without encouraging anyone to take a drink, or do a shot, or whatever.

I am a drinker, but I agree with every word you say. You do indeed have to draw the line somewhere, and I refuse to actively encourage people to drink more than they should. I'm never short of gigs either - if the music's good, you don't have to do anything but keep on playing.

[Freddels]

We tried this last night. We spoke with the bartender/manager before the gig. He had no idea what he wanted to sell. Just said "something with alcohol". We tried to push further and he just said "drafts". We finally asked what mixed drinks he'd like to sell more of and still got a blank look and then finally said something like Mai Tai's.

The bar said they had a very good night but the band didn't make squat.

It's not going to work at that particular venue.

[Munjibunga]

We tried it in my acoustic trio last night at a classy little bar we played in Ocean Beach. The management really appreciated our promoting the specials and tips. At the end of the night, they said it was one of the busiest Saturday nights they've had. They also paid us $100 more than the agreed-upon fee.

It was a tight gig for us - we have four people including our drummer. Get this - the stage is 6½ feet by 9 feet. We were all on stage. We told the drummer he could bring only a snare and hi-hat, but I rigged up one of those SX stomp blocks for him, and I put an overhead on his snare and hi-hat. It actually worked well, but boy, it was cozy.

[Ukiah Bass]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

And I only play in bars because we are forced to.

I barely know how to respond to this comment.

[jmattbassplaya]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I am willing to put on such an entertaining show that it will sell drinks. I have accepted that if I want to play my music in a bar, that is what I am stuck with.

I will NEVER pitch alcohol to people. Alcohol is poison, and most people who come to bars drink far too much of it. Every year, thousands of people are killed in drunk-driving fatalities; thousands more destroy their organs; and millions destroy their lives. I have lost a lot of people I care about due to liquor. And I only play in bars because we are forced to.

I know that will give plenty of you reason to criticize me, and please, FEEL FREE. I don't mind at all. I am unhappy that the reason I am playing music is to sell alcohol. I wish it was just to entertain people. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and I assure you, I will go to my grave without encouraging anyone to take a drink, or do a shot, or whatever.

It's definitely respectful to have that outlook. Personally, I think you're cutting yourselves short by having that policy, but I don't think anyone could blame you (minus your own bandmates if they disagree).

[ShoeManiac]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I am willing to put on such an entertaining show that it will sell drinks. I have accepted that if I want to play my music in a bar, that is what I am stuck with.

I will NEVER pitch alcohol to people. Alcohol is poison, and most people who come to bars drink far too much of it. Every year, thousands of people are killed in drunk-driving fatalities; thousands more destroy their organs; and millions destroy their lives. I have lost a lot of people I care about due to liquor. And I only play in bars because we are forced to.

I know that will give plenty of you reason to criticize me, and please, FEEL FREE. I don't mind at all. I am unhappy that the reason I am playing music is to sell alcohol. I wish it was just to entertain people. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and I assure you, I will go to my grave without encouraging anyone to take a drink, or do a shot, or whatever.

I can completely understand where you're coming from. Alcohol has destroyed many lives, both literally and figuratively. This thread, however, seems to be about music as a commercial enterprise at the local level. And how can we make a live music experience profitable for both the venue and the act? If we can find a way to do that without encouraging the sale of liquor? Great! I'm all ears.

The coffee shop seems like the one possible venue that you could try appealing to that could host live music without pinning their success on alcohol sales. But will a music act bring in enough additional business to support paying the act AND generating more revenue for the venue? It's certainly been tried quite a bit. But that type of venue has historically been limited in the scope of material that they can present.

[sleeplessknight]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

I barely know how to respond to this comment.

Believe me, I have some seriously-smart ass comments I want to provide, but they're far too mean for this forum or this thread so I'm keeping my piehole shut. Doesn't mean I'm not sitting here like this though:

[SquierJazz72]

Leaving aside everyone's opinions on the selling and promotion of alcohol by the band and looking at the idea itself, I can see where it both will and won't work.

If the owners on top of his business, knows what sells, what he wants to sell, and can communicate that, it will likely work well.

On the other hand, if he's vague, doesn't pay enough attention to his own business to know, or just can't be clear, it may not work so well, if at all.

[JakeF]

Originally Posted by ShoeManiac

I can completely understand where you're coming from. Alcohol has destroyed many lives, both literally and figuratively. This thread, however, seems to be about music as a commercial enterprise at the local level. And how can we make a live music experience profitable for both the venue and the act? If we can find a way to do that without encouraging the sale of liquor? Great! I'm all ears.

The coffee shop seems like the one possible venue that you could try appealing to that could host live music without pinning their success on alcohol sales. But will a music act bring in enough additional business to support paying the act AND generating more revenue for the venue? It's certainly been tried quite a bit. But that type of venue has historically been limited in the scope of material that they can present.

I've never seen people buy "rounds" of drinks in coffee shops or drink massive amounts of the stuff. Additionally few are open late enough for serious partying and rarely have much dancing (which seems strange given the caffeinated nature of their drinks). If anyone has any ideas regarding how to make these gigs more profitable I'm all ears but without the late hours and a change to coffee shop culture I don't see these types of venues being terribly profitable for anything other than acoustic acts and maybe duos.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by mellowinman

I am willing to put on such an entertaining show that it will sell drinks. I have accepted that if I want to play my music in a bar, that is what I am stuck with.

I will NEVER pitch alcohol to people. Alcohol is poison, and most people who come to bars drink far too much of it. Every year, thousands of people are killed in drunk-driving fatalities; thousands more destroy their organs; and millions destroy their lives. I have lost a lot of people I care about due to liquor. And I only play in bars because we are forced to.

I know that will give plenty of you reason to criticize me, and please, FEEL FREE. I don't mind at all. I am unhappy that the reason I am playing music is to sell alcohol. I wish it was just to entertain people. But you have to draw the line somewhere, and I assure you, I will go to my grave without encouraging anyone to take a drink, or do a shot, or whatever.

You make some good points. However, just by being there you are pushing alcohol. I don't drink either and I generally don't like being around drunks. I have to balance that with my desire to play to audiences. Audiences win in my case. You obviously feel strongly on the issue, but not strongly enough to not entertain for the purpose of selling alcohol.

Bottom line, the people in those establishments are there for the express purpose of drinking. They're going to drink (either there or elsewhere) regardless of what you do. Might as well give them some music to ruin their lives by.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

However, just by being there you are pushing alcohol.

This.

This.

And again THIS^^^^^

That's why I continue to use language like "actively" versus "passively" helping the bar owner sell alcohol.

Like it or not, I fail to see a logical way around this basic truth.

[TRichardsbass]

What I find funny is that people think mentioning specials or occassionally throwing in an alcohol reference is making you a liquor salesman.

Like whitty banter it should just be part of the overall act. I mean how often does a band throw in a joke or some off color comment during a set? Most if not all do it every night. And those inside jokes you make between songs? I am pretty sure no one gives two about them.

The best bands, the ones making better bank, do most if not all of what the article says you should.

Dress like a schlub, get paid like a schlub. Act like a boob earn zero respect. Think only about yourself and believe its about you? Spend your life complaining that club owners suck and dont pay.

[Freddels]

It didn't work for us at this venue on this particular night. Maybe we got the manager/bartender thinking though. Maybe, just maybe, he'll have a better idea of what he wants to sell more of next time. He did say the bar had a very good night.

[Baird6869]

Nice!

I have been gigging for 25+ years and been in sales for 20+.... I never thought to do that.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

This.

This.

And again THIS^^^^^

That's why I continue to use language like "actively" versus "passively" helping the bar owner sell alcohol.

Like it or not, I fail to see a logical way around this basic truth.

Nah. I totally disagree with you guys. You are NOT even passively "pushing alcohol" just by being there. I have been to see bands and never had a drink the whole time I was there. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Nah. I totally disagree with you guys. You are NOT even passively "pushing alcohol" just by being there. I have been to see bands and never had a drink the whole time I was there. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Very true. In Australia (or at least in Queensland) alcohol isn't the biggest money earner these days. Poker machines in clubs earn over 20 times more money than the sale of alcohol. These are the most insidious devices, where people just push buttons and can lose hundreds of dollars in less than an hour.

I do drink alcohol, but I won't advertise it. I despise these online gambling machines, and I won't advertise them either. I smoke, but I wouldn't advertise cigarettes (though that's not an issue these days).

Sure, musicians play in pubs, bars, clubs and other venues that promote all sorts of products. Why should I, as a musician, be required to help sell these products? Because I'm paid by the club? That's a stupid answer - I'm paid to play music, not promote alcohol sales, gambling, or any other damn thing. I don't understand why this view bugs so many people. Clubs can afford to hire buxom girls to promote their alcohol products (and many do), so they certainly don't need bands to do it.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by two fingers

Nah. I totally disagree with you guys. You are NOT even passively "pushing alcohol" just by being there. I have been to see bands and never had a drink the whole time I was there. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

So, you think that a band, hired specifically to create a party atmosphere, get people dancing and thirsty and uninhibited, has no part in the attraction to order a drink, just because you didn't drink at a gig?

I must be missing something here.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

So, you think that a band, hired specifically to create a party atmosphere, get people dancing and thirsty and uninhibited, has no part in the attraction to order a drink, just because you didn't drink at a gig?

I must be missing something here.

You're not missing anything. Everybody in this business understands that a good band gets people exited and dancing, and drinking more booze. Some of us just don't like the idea of actively promoting it ourselves. What's so hard to understand about that? If it doesn't bother you, fair enough. There's no "right or wrong" here, just different ways of looking at it.

[Ukiah Bass]

It's interesting ... I play jazz at events at local wineries. Their product: booze. However, at these events, they measure success not by how many glasses of wine are poured on premise at the event, but by how many bottles and especially cases of wine (12 bottles ea.) go out the door. Typically a bottle will sell for $20-50 each, and can be much more for the premium wine. The big prize is signing people up in the wine club, which ensures ongoing sales of wine all year. Any advice for how a jazz band would help the winery owner accomplish those business goals? (we've got the music ambiance part down fine!)