It works! Open letter..... part 2

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

It's interesting ... I play jazz at events at local wineries. Their product: booze. However, at these events, they measure success not by how many glasses of wine are poured on premise at the event, but by how many bottles and especially cases of wine (12 bottles ea.) go out the door. Typically a bottle will sell for $20-50 each, and can be much more for the premium wine. The big prize is signing people up in the wine club, which ensures ongoing sales of wine all year. Any advice for how a jazz band would help the winery owner accomplish those business goals? (we've got the music ambiance part down fine!)

I would think you should do as the OP is suggesting. Throw some plugs for the product into your set between songs.

[inthevelvet]

Originally Posted by two fingers

EVERYONE is in sales. EVERYONE. The only difference is that some of us know it (and are OK with it) and some of us don't. You tell me what you do for a living and I'll tel you how it's sales.

+1000

[Luke19Boarder]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

It's interesting ... I play jazz at events at local wineries. Their product: booze. However, at these events, they measure success not by how many glasses of wine are poured on premise at the event, but by how many bottles and especially cases of wine (12 bottles ea.) go out the door. Typically a bottle will sell for $20-50 each, and can be much more for the premium wine. The big prize is signing people up in the wine club, which ensures ongoing sales of wine all year. Any advice for how a jazz band would help the winery owner accomplish those business goals? (we've got the music ambiance part down fine!)

If you've got any merch/CDs - maybe work out a deal with the owners where they get a discount on your CD with purchase of a bottle, and a free CD/shirt/whathaveyou if they join the club? See if you can get the owners to reimburse you for some of the discount or something.

Just a thought.

[Max Bogosity]

We played 'Tequila' just for fun one night, and afterwards the bartender told us she grossed $300 in tequila shots during that song. Now it's on the set list!

[inthevelvet]

...And I only play in bars because we are forced to.

Nice try, but if someone is holding a gun to your head to play in a bar, you should definitely call the authorities when you get your break after the first set. I fully respect (although disagree with) your disdain for alcohol. But if I felt that way about something, I wouldn't do it. I'm against communism, so if the dictator of North Korea asks me to play his next inaguaration, I'll just say say "No". As opposed to doing it and then complaining about how I was forced to.

[Freddels]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

It's interesting ... I play jazz at events at local wineries. Their product: booze. However, at these events, they measure success not by how many glasses of wine are poured on premise at the event, but by how many bottles and especially cases of wine (12 bottles ea.) go out the door. Typically a bottle will sell for $20-50 each, and can be much more for the premium wine. The big prize is signing people up in the wine club, which ensures ongoing sales of wine all year. Any advice for how a jazz band would help the winery owner accomplish those business goals? (we've got the music ambiance part down fine!)

Sure, buy a case or two. I would think that playing music that doesn't drive people away is good. If you can keep people there for a period of time long enough for the sales staff at the winery to do their job, that should be good.

Originally Posted by bassinplace

I would think you should do as the OP is suggesting. Throw some plugs for the product into your set between songs.

I going to guess that many people at these places may know a bit about wine, so if you really don't know what you're talking about, you may be doing more harm than good for the sales staff.

I would suggest talking to the sales staff there and asking if there's anything the band can do to help increase the sales.

[bassinplace]

Originally Posted by Freddels

Sure, buy a case or two. I would think that playing music that doesn't drive people away is good. If you can keep people there for a period of time long enough for the sales staff at the winery to do their job, that should be good.



I going to guess that many people at these places may know a bit about wine, so if you really don't know what you're talking about, you may be doing more harm than good for the sales staff.

I would suggest talking to the sales staff there and asking if there's anything the band can do to help increase the sales.

Ah, right. Good point.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

You're not missing anything. Everybody in this business understands that a good band gets people exited and dancing, and drinking more booze. Some of us just don't like the idea of actively promoting it ourselves. What's so hard to understand about that? If it doesn't bother you, fair enough. There's no "right or wrong" here, just different ways of looking at it.

That's a great answer. We all have our reasons for feeling the way we do.

Me?

In High School, I was madly in love with this young lady, who had issues her entire life with booze. She was a year younger than me, and two years ago, she looked about twenty years older. She's dead now.

I have lost a lot of people to drugs and alcohol, and I play the lower end of the circuit. A month or two ago, a guy who we all really like in this town came to see us, and we had such a great time with him and his girlfriend.

She's dead now, too. Alcohol didn't kill her; the lifestyle that kept her dirt poor caused her not to get medical care for a condition she could have recovered from, and grown old. Instead, she died young.

I have personal experience with the downside of partying, and I have no venue to play where there isn't any. I am FORCED to play bars. No one holds a gun to my head, but if I don't play bars in Fort Wayne, someone please tell me where I am going to play? Because if I don't play the bars, they aren't going to hire me for the outdoor festivals.

You gotta pay your dues if you wanna play the blues, and I have accepted that. That doesn't mean I have to like alcohol, or alcoholics.

I have suffered very real losses, and have some very profound sadness involved in what I write here. People can minimize it, and dismiss it all they want, but it is legitimate. It is not judgmental. It is simply how I feel.

I will play bars. I will NOT stand on a stage and urge people to do shots.

That's where I draw the line, and if someone thinks it's ridiculous, that is their God Given Right as an American. (or citizen of another country)

[Passinwind]

Originally Posted by Ukiah Bass

It's interesting ... I play jazz at events at local wineries. Their product: booze. However, at these events, they measure success not by how many glasses of wine are poured on premise at the event, but by how many bottles and especially cases of wine (12 bottles ea.) go out the door. Typically a bottle will sell for $20-50 each, and can be much more for the premium wine. The big prize is signing people up in the wine club, which ensures ongoing sales of wine all year. Any advice for how a jazz band would help the winery owner accomplish those business goals? (we've got the music ambiance part down fine!)

I used to play tons of winery gigs, and we were pretty much expected to know their specific products and local wine in general. I wouldn't tell patrons to buy a case of the Orgasmic Barbera from onstage, but I definitely would tell them that's what I was drinking if they asked, and what my other three favorites from that winery were.

Many of the local wineries really seemed to appreciate seeing me sending or bringing in tasting groups on days I wasn't even playing there, or even just supporting other acts that played there. I also got invited to lots of special tastings, food pairings, and other showcase events that often represented good booking opportunities for my bands.

As you say, sales by the case are the game. I've seen people limit their purchases strictly by what physically fits in their SUVs or the sidebags of their bikes (bikers are a huge part of the winery demographic here), so thousands of bucks a whack in many cases.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

There's no "right or wrong" here, just different ways of looking at it.

I disagree mate. From the sound of it, what's usually "right" in Oz is much less often "right" here in the USA. And vice versa.

In addition, twofingers (the OP of this thread) told the tale of how he and his band found success through helping the bar owner sell more alcohol. Seems to be the "right" thing for him and his band. We call it a success when things go "right" and a failure when things go "wrong." Here in the USA.

In fact, if you read his post again, twofingers said "You are NOT even passively 'pushing alcohol' just by being there." Which I think was meant to imply that just being there and playing well is not enough, the band needs to actively make alcohol-related comments and announcements.

I've lived in two states (Ohio and Colorado) and two large capital cities with thriving music scenes, and, generally speaking, it is definitely not "right" to share your view on the band-bar owner relationship. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are just that.

I'm looking at the comments on these threads promoting a healthy relationship between band and bar owner, including light MC duties and helping him move alcohol across the counter when it's deemed neccesary, and they seem to be coming from all over the USA. Things seem to be considerably different in Australia, as well as other countries. Since the threads on this subject were started by US citizens, and the barkeep in the open letter is a US citizen, it's important to keep cultural differences about what's right versus wrong in mind.

[TRichardsbass]

Mellowinman I don't think anyone will minimize your feelings.

Like you I am sure many of us in the biz have directly experienced losses like you as well. I know I have.

Part of the reason I am so anti-drug is because for most of the 80s I watched music biz buds destroy themselves using hard drugs in the name of enhanced creativity. I personally discovered the cold body of a lovely singer one morning after she enjoyed her final dose of heroin.

However I don't blame it on the bars or even the dealers. Each of us has the ability to say no. Each of us has a personal responsibility. I have gotten hammered many many times and smartly have never gotten behind the wheel. I have always paced myself with alcohol onstage but probably because I suck sober so drunk aint gonna make me better. Growing up on the Jersey Shore bars are part of everyday life especially in warmer months. So you either learn to navigate them in life or you don't.

I dont think that yelling a drink special in any way effects the person with no control. They are gonna do it drink special or not.

There are plenty of churches that have music groups as well as local theater groups who hire musicians. If you dont want to do that then you need to create your own venue. For years a friend and I have rented ourselves out for summer block parties, family reunions, barbeques, and charity events. Not as regular as bar gigs but they are not bar type settings.

If you are playing bars you do need to be bar owner friendly if you want good paying regular gigs.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I disagree mate. From the sound of it, what's usually "right" in Oz is much less often "right" here in the USA. And vice versa.

In addition, twofingers (the OP of this thread) told the tale of how he and his band found success through helping the bar owner sell more alcohol. Seems to be the "right" thing for him and his band. We call it a success when things go "right" and a failure when things go "wrong." Here in the USA.

In fact, if you read his post again, twofingers said "You are NOT even passively 'pushing alcohol' just by being there." Which I think was meant to imply that just being there and playing well is not enough, the band needs to actively make alcohol-related comments and announcements.

I've lived in two states (Ohio and Colorado) and two large capital cities with thriving music scenes, and, generally speaking, it is definitely not "right" to share your view on the band-bar owner relationship. I'm sure there are exceptions, but they are just that.

I'm looking at the comments on these threads promoting a healthy relationship between band and bar owner, including light MC duties and helping him move alcohol across the counter when it's deemed neccesary, and they seem to be coming from all over the USA. Things seem to be considerably different in Australia, as well as other countries. Since the threads on this subject were started by US citizens, and the barkeep in the open letter is a US citizen, it's important to keep cultural differences about what's right versus wrong in mind.

So only the opinions of Americans are valid here?

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

So only the opinions of Americans are valid here?

Since we face an issue that you don't, as it pertains to dealing with that issue, yes. As well intended as it may be, your advice is misplaced on us Yanks. It doesn't apply. Most of us can't tell a bar owner to eff himself.

Don't take it personal mate. If you can get away with that, or the general "we don't help the barkeep if we don't feel like it" mentality, you're the lucky one. But anyone reading this thread needs to realize that you can get away with that because you're in a country that is culturally different and tolerates it.

In that sense, it's not a matter of right versus wrong but rather what's right in Australia versus what's right in the USA.

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

So only the opinions of Americans are valid here?

No way, dude. We are all citizens of the world, and there is no difference between Australia and the USA when it comes to bar owners.

They're like that everywhere.

[MarkMgibson]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Since we face an issue that you don't, as it pertains to dealing with that issue, yes. As well intended as it may be, your advice is misplaced on us Yanks. It doesn't apply. Most of us can't tell a bar owner to eff himself.

Don't take it personal mate. If you can get away with that, or the general "we don't help the barkeep if we don't feel like it" mentality, you're the lucky one. But anyone reading this thread needs to realize that you can get away with that because you're in a country that is culturally different and tolerates it.

In that sense, it's not a matter of right versus wrong but rather what's right in Australia versus what's right in the USA.

I certainly don't take it personally; you're entitled to your opinion. Have you ever wondered why these things differ in other parts of the world? I remember the first time we were asked to do promos for a club. The band leader was asked (not me), and I remember his response very well. He said "sorry mate, but that's your job, not ours". He said it with a sort of incredulous tone (like "are you kidding"), and the manager just said, "yeah fair enough", and walked off.

If you're comfortable doing that sort of thing, then fair enough. If not, you should try just saying no - you might just find the management won't press the issue. Just a thought (even it is from an Aussie).

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by MarkMgibson

If you're comfortable doing that sort of thing, then fair enough. If not, you should try just saying no - you might just find the management won't press the issue. Just a thought (even it is from an Aussie).

It's a good thought, and I know you mean well.

Now, the reality from Stateside. And from the sound of many of these posts, I'm not alone:

Band 1 tells the bar owner to go eff himself (as you put it), we're not helping you make your stoopid bloody announcements, that's your job.

Band 2 tells the bar owner, "sure, we can help out with a little light MC duties if it helps you move your product and have a more successful evening."

Band 2 gets booked. Repeatedly. Band 1 never hears from the bar owner again.

Maybe you're suggesting some kind of revolt or unionized stand of bands versus bar owners, but I think we both know that's in the realm of fiction at this point. Not going to happen.

There are a lot of really good bands in my area. The competition is stiff. Bar owners have their pick of the litter. Some are getting booked. Some are not, though they are of the same level of musicianship and entertainment value. And I know why, and it's simple: Some bands play the game of politics better than others.

That's the way it is all over the US. Not every single spot, but from the responses on these threads and many others of this nature, it appears to be widespread in this country.