Would any of you put up with....

[thebeef]

I'm playing bass for a very talented, but very flighty guitarist/singer/songwriter. Hes a true artist and acts as such. We play his originals, which is fine, because they are wonderful songs and I like to play them, but he tends to under prepare and he likes to change things up on the fly. He often holds out notes between verses without notice while he gathers his thoughts. He likes to write songs and play them before I can learn them. He likes to add covers on a whim, and play them whether I have ever heard the song or not. I've told him it makes me uncomfortable but he maintains he needs to be free on stage to play what he feels like because it helps him get over nervousness. Im not a great bassist, but I work hard at it, and as long as I'm prepared, I can do the job. I've stressed that I will learn any song, as long as I'm given some notice, but he still insists on throwing me for a loop at times. We have split up once before because of this, and now that we are back together, we are building some local momentum, I fear this is going to derail us once again.

1.Am I being a baby about this?
2.Would any of you put up with it?
3.Have you ever dealt with the "artist" type that is super talented but perpetulantly unprepared and selfish on stage?

The benefits of your experiences and advice are much in need.

[MaxZolt]

I always try to play with people who keep me on my toes as a musician. He doesn't sound like a bad guy - as long as you like the music, I would stick around. You'll probably find yourself able to keep up with him much more easily after a little while.

[svenbass]

Originally Posted by thebeef

1.Am I being a baby about this?
2.Would any of you put up with it?
3.Have you ever dealt with the "artist" type that is super talented but perpetulantly unprepared and selfish on stage?

1 - No

2 - Yes/No/maybe? - very subject to the situation and musicianship at hand. As long as it's fun in the long run!!

3 - Yes, however this is not necessarily a case of selfishness - I can't make the call as I don't know him.

I work with someone who is similar in certain respects, and will launch into whatever he feels, whenever he feels it. I'm used to it, and when things go off the deep end I just let it go, as he doesn't expect it to go perfect. In my aituation, I suspect it's part of the show (for better or worse). It can be frustrating/stressful to not know what's next, but now I actually look forward to those moments as they challenge me as a musician, and as a bassist to make it happen on the fly.

The best advice I can offer:

Open your ears, and if things get out of hand, just lay out and look for a spot to jump in. If it's really tricky, it may be good time to grab a pint. Of course you need the demeanor to accept this situation, and it's not for everyone!

If the music is sucking, then there's a problem. If you are pulling it off and grooving, then congrats, as you are gaining a very useful skill - making it all happen in the moment can be exhilarating! The other point I can mention is to find out what patterns he develops - most players have subtle 'tells' that help you know when something is about to occur

[CincyBassMan]

Originally Posted by svenbass

The best advice I can offer:

Open your ears, and if things get out of hand, just lay out and look for a spot to jump in. If it's really tricky, it may be good time to grab a pint. Of course you need the demeanor to accept this situation, and it's not for everyone!

If the music is sucking, then there's a problem. If you are pulling it off and grooving, then congrats, as you are gaining a very useful skill - making it all happen in the moment can be exhilarating! The other point I can mention is to find out what patterns he develops - most players have subtle 'tells' that help you know when something is about to occur

Best Advice Ever!!

I understand your frustration, but it sounds to me like you have an opportunity. If you can relax and open your ears, you may surprise yourself!

Russ

[pizzicato16]

Think of it as great training for your ear. I have certainly been in a situation similar to the one you are in. Trust in your ability, LISTEN, and do what you can. Not everyone you will play with will know even what it is they are playing(The cats who just "feel it"). If you like the music and it's worth your time, let your ears be your guide. Most singer/songwriter/guitarists are not brilliant musicians, so knowing a little about guitar might help.

[barbarbass]

It all depends on just how talented this guy is. You have some YouTube footage or a myspace page for this band? That would answer the question for me.

[wkbryan]

Consider why he does this. It sounds like he's not doing it with malice so it may be that he just really can't relate to your position on it. It may also be that he thinks your doing a better job on new stuff and making changes on the fly than you do

Through the years I've played quite a bit with my brother who is a much better musician than I am. He has a great ear and can learn/memorize songs almost immediately. I can't do that. I remember many years ago our band was in a college office waiting to go onstage and he was still finishing a song for us to do that night! He played and sang it great. The rest of us? Well......
My point is this, I know that I need more practice than some folks if I want to do well (and feel good about it). I also know that when I play with folks that don't it is ultimately a good teaching experience for me and that I do get better at it each time. As long as they're not jerks about it (or in general) I'll put up with them if they'll put up with me.

Also, if y'all are developing a local following it sounds like your audience thinks your doing a pretty good job dealing with it!

[Fnord Explorer]

Working with artsy types a lot, I have to say I have learned to roll with it pretty well. You have to develop some "sea legs" with those types. So long as it doesn't actually completely halt progress, I don't see it as a big deal. Of course, on the rocking boat of artsy flights of fancy, I tend to make myself the helmsman and steer the dynamic toward something constructive.

[Fret Boiler]

I have to agree with most of these comments. This sounds like a GREAT learning experience for you and will make you a much better player. My advice is to work off of solid recordings so you can get tight with structured lines, but then 'go with the flo' when on stage with this guy. Don't worry if you aren't completely spot-on with his lead all the time. Learning to adjust and follow is all a part of learning to improvise.

You really are lucky to be in this situation.

[realdeal]

I had your experience, but with an alternate twist-
PHENOMENAL performer/artist- All original tunes, superb Vocalist, excellent guitarist, songs were truely originals- Reggae/Funk/Soul/R&B.
It was one of the most rewarding (musically) projects I've ever had the pleasure of playing with.

Problem- He had every single note for bass written, and insisted that it be played as written, note-for-note. That's ok, but there were spaces for embellishment (rarely allowed),
and he even discussed the individual duration and overall tone of each note!
Funny, I understood this- I understand artists wanting their work played out as they created it in their mind...It worked, and there were valid, musical reasons for this- primarily the polyrhythmic sense in which he had guitar, bass, drums and vocals arranged as instrumentations to the song.

But- along with the strict musical performance demands-
He was "funny with the money", taking more than his promised share (expenses incurred, etc). He took the best rooms for himself on tour while the drummer and I shared, he was a womanizer (Sure, it's cool-whatever- but I have a Lady at home, and even though there are "temptations" aplenty, after you've been there/done that, it isn't necessary to grab it just 'cause you can...) That got boring.
He was a glutton, and intemperate, he even insisted that I play my P-Bass only for the gig. Makes sense...

However- The $$ was good, even with him grabbing some out of our pockets, he was a consumate, incredible performer who wowed the audience, and after tremendous rehearsals, our performance was tight to perfection...note-for note!

3 Months on the road with this guy, (and the drummer was nuts too!...But the best I've ever worked with...)
We did some amazing shows- Festivals, clubs, and I saw a lot of the USA, and subsequently did some shows in Japan with him. Sweet.

These boys were from "Down South", New Orleans-area, where they take music VERY seriously. Coming home to Los Angeles, the land of flakes, I have yet to find true artists with the discipline and committment that "Mr. X" had for his music and his show. I miss it, even with all the idiosyncracies, to say the least.

So you are not alone...Sometimes there are trade-offs to working with a creative, yet difficult artist. We all have our "issues"

[Rickett Customs]

Suck it up man,

It's called improvisation, and those skills are PRICELESS!

/Jason

[goyin108]

Those are my favorite gigs where someone goes off on a tangent and everybody has the ability to follow and take the music to another level. You just have to listen and be in tune with what everyone is doing. I worked with a drummer where all I had to do was nod my head and he knew what was next. Good times.

[ThunderLizard]

Some excellent advice above. Hope you're getting paid well.
Groove when you can, if not, lay out.
The price of his art, freedom and spontinaity will be going it alone sometimes.

[svenbass]

Originally Posted by ThunderLizard

The price of his art, freedom and spontaneity will be going it alone sometimes.

Word!

As long as that's understood, everyone should be able to relax and enjoy the experience.

[nortonrider]

I think that is disrespectful for him to do this to you.

It sound as if you are doing what you can to make him look/sound his best and he doesn't care about reciprocation. I can only imagine your frustration by stumbling around trying to keep up without looking like a fool.

You guys have already split once because of this and now he is doing it again. He ain't going to change.

[bassbrad]

Originally Posted by thebeef

1.Am I being a baby about this?
2.Would any of you put up with it?
3.Have you ever dealt with the "artist" type that is super talented but perpetulantly unprepared and selfish on stage?

The benefits of your experiences and advice are much in need.

1. It is a tough situation but consider it a challenge that will make you a better player in the long run.
2. Yes, if I felt that the situation had something to offer me, yours sounds promising.
3. Yes, I played for many years with a very talented keyboardist/singer/showman that was a major flake everywhere but on stage. He was a walking juke box & knew thousands of songs; rock, country, pop, top 40, standards & jazz and would play them at any moment (usually for a nice tip). He could amaze even me fulfilling requests and the few times he was stumped he would make up something so good he still got the tip and applause. Most of the time I was on a prayer and a wing other times he would jot down a quick arrangement and we would give it a whirl, usually very successfully. My experiences playing with him is a large part of why I am as confident as I now am as a bass player.

[Chuck King]

If a band leader consistently launches into songs the rest of the band doesn't know...that's not cool. Winging it can be fun in certain circumstances---at a small gig with a party atmosphere, sure, whatever. But sloppy is sloppy and if the band is consistently sloppy because nobody but him knows the songs being played, it will limit your opportunities.

There's a difference between improvisation and being confronted with a song that you just don't know, or having an arrangement changed on you with no notice. If you're good and lucky you can roll with it okay, but even so sometimes it's not going to work.

So I'd think about what your goals are with the project. If you want this to go further than the local watering hole, a professional show is important.