Would you have a problem with this?

[denhou1974]

I'm in a 4 piece coverband. We play 4-5 times per month on the weekends. If someone is not available we use a sub.

I've raised a couple of concerns with the band but it seems like I'm the only one that is bothered by these things. They are not 'deal breakers' as far as I'm concerned but I'm worried that the band might suffer in the long run. This is a great group of guys and I don't want to upset anyone so let's hear some 'outsiders' opinions ...

1. The drummer and bassist isn't available so two subs are used. The band books last minute gigs and still bills itself with the same name. Is it really the same band when 1/2 the band is missing?

2. Guitar is way too loud. In smaller venues where only mains are needed guitarist runs the PA. Vox and guitar goes through the mains, no bass, no drums. But he runs the guitar through both mains, all 3 monitors, and a 4x12. By the 3rd song there's a 20' buffer zone between the band and the audience. I've mentioned something about this and he says that he "cant hear himself" unless it's blasting like that.

3. We need to tune down. It makes it easier on some vocalists (lead and backing) to tune down 1/2 step. We do this for 4 songs and the rest we play in A440 which also forces us to bring extra guitars. I don't get it.

[jonly]

My only problem is when you said you were in a "cover band". The term you are looking for is "back-up band".

I've been there, I took the money every weekend until I could no longer play Freebird to the central Illinois area.

[sevenyearsdown]

Originally Posted by denhou1974

1. The drummer and bassist isn't available so two subs are used. The band books last minute gigs and still bills itself with the same name. Is it really the same band when 1/2 the band is missing?

If it works for you, then what's the big deal?

Originally Posted by denhou1974

2. Guitar is way too loud. In smaller venues where only mains are needed guitarist runs the PA. Vox goes through the mains, no bass, no drums. But he runs the guitar through both mains, all 3 monitors, and a 4x12. By the 3rd song there's a 20' buffer zone between the band and the audience. I've mentioned something about this and he says that he "cant hear himself" unless it's blasting like that.

I played in a band with a guy like this. Most of my friends complained to me after the first show, the second show, and then stopped coming. It is just guitarist nonsense, and we have all dealt with it. I quit after the 5th gig 'cause he wouldn't change.

Originally Posted by denhou1974

3. We need to tune down. It makes it easier on some vocalists (lead and backing) to tune down 1/2 step. We do this for 4 songs and the rest we play in A440 which also forces us to bring extra guitars. I don't get it.

I use a pedal tuner for this rather than multiple basses. Click it on, you're muted, maybe 1 minute needed to tune up while the singer is bantering.

[phatbass]

Originally Posted by denhou1974

1. The drummer and bassist isn't available so two subs are used. The band books last minute gigs and still bills itself with the same name. Is it really the same band when 1/2 the band is missing?I don't get it.

I personally don't see this as a biggie, but if it's a concern to you the other members of the band might need to respect that.

Originally Posted by denhou1974

2. Guitar is way too loud. In smaller venues where only mains are needed guitarist runs the PA. Vox goes through the mains, no bass, no drums. But he runs the guitar through both mains, all 3 monitors, and a 4x12. By the 3rd song there's a 20' buffer zone between the band and the audience. I've mentioned something about this and he says that he "cant hear himself" unless it's blasting like that.

This is a big concern. Can't he see the "no fly" zone in front of the stage? He needs to sort out onstage sound for himself - probably a wedge just for his guitar, or in ear monitors. If he really needs all that to hear himself he needs a hearing test.

Originally Posted by denhou1974

3. We need to tune down. It makes it easier on some vocalists (lead and backing) to tune down 1/2 step. We do this for 4 songs and the rest we play in A440 which also forces us to bring extra guitars. I don't get it.

I guess if you absolutely have to, then you have to. I personally would just drop the 4 songs unless they're HUGE and indispensable crowd-pleasers. Or do 'em in standard tuning

[denhou1974]

Originally Posted by jonly

My only problem is when you said you were in a "cover band". The term you are looking for is "back-up band".

I've been there, I took the money every weekend until I could no longer play Freebird to the central Illinois area.

I have to disagree with you on this. A back-up band is a band that is hired to back a particular artist, that artist being the main attraction. He can hire whomever he wants as his backing band.

Cover bands play tunes that you hear on the radio and are usually known by name, not one person in particular.

I've done both in the past 16 years.

[jonly]

my point was that when they can sub out the whole rhythm section, it just goes to show that they have a very particular idea of who the band actually is.

[PBass101]

Originally Posted by denhou1974

2. Guitar is way too loud. In smaller venues where only mains are needed guitarist runs the PA. Vox and guitar goes through the mains, no bass, no drums. But he runs the guitar through both mains, all 3 monitors, and a 4x12. By the 3rd song there's a 20' buffer zone between the band and the audience. I've mentioned something about this and he says that he "cant hear himself" unless it's blasting like that.

My guitard has the same "issue". He's my college roommate but I'm quitting the band as soon as we graduate, mostly for this reason.

These guitar players are ***holes and there is no getting through to them. I don't know if my guitard thinks he's a rock star or what, but everything has to be extremely loud (except bass...) Unfortunately, our drummer is also almost deaf and "needs" everything at arena volumes too, even at practices.

Whatever. I'm a better bass player than to deal with their B.S.

Originally Posted by denhou1974

3. We need to tune down. It makes it easier on some vocalists (lead and backing) to tune down 1/2 step. We do this for 4 songs and the rest we play in A440 which also forces us to bring extra guitars. I don't get it.

We downtune everything because our guitard can't sing for his life. We do "Summertime Blues" ala The Who, which is normally in A, but we have to play it in G - with our guitars tuned down a half step already - because said guitard sucks. So technically we play it in F#?

[denhou1974]

Originally Posted by sevenyearsdown

If it works for you, then what's the big deal?

I'm glad you posted this and I think this is the root of my concerns.

When I first joined up I was fine just playing to keep my chops up and getting some extra spending money. Now, I want to improve on things and make the band more professional. I'm not content on 'just getting by'. I'm not sure who's subbing for the band. Those guys could be great or they could be horrible. There lies the worry.

[sevenyearsdown]

Originally Posted by denhou1974

I'm glad you posted this and I think this is the root of my concerns.

When I first joined up I was fine just playing to keep my chops up and getting some extra spending money. Now, I want to improve on things and make the band more professional. I'm not content on 'just getting by'. I'm not sure who's subbing for the band. Those guys could be great or they could be horrible. There lies the worry.

It sounds to me like you need find a new band then.

[phatbass]

Originally Posted by denhou1974

I'm glad you posted this and I think this is the root of my concerns.

When I first joined up I was fine just playing to keep my chops up and getting some extra spending money. Now, I want to improve on things and make the band more professional. I'm not content on 'just getting by'. I'm not sure who's subbing for the band. Those guys could be great or they could be horrible. There lies the worry.

It is a worry if the other guys don't care and will hire any warm body who can hold a bass, or sit behind a drum kit just so they can do a gig...

If this is their attitude they're on the fast-track to nowhere and you should maybe look for an outfit with a more pro approach i.e. realise that if/when they do use a sub, he/she has to be of a certain standard.

[unclekebm]

1. It's the Band name or 'brand recognition' that's important, that builds longevity
although the 'Subs' should be of 'Pro' caliber & IMO it's better to have the same cats

2. That's a problem, maybe he can tilt his amp or put it on a stand closer to his ear

3. Shouldn't you have a 'back-up' Bass on hand anyway?

[J. Montgomery]

One of the guitarists in my band recently fixed his "playing too loud" problem. He had been playing out of an amp with a 4x12 cabinet behind him. The problem being that the speakers are at about knee level and his head is a few feet above that . . . . he recently bought a 2x12 combo amp that he can put on an amp stand that angles it up toward his head. Now that he can hear himself he's much quieter! lol

[j.stemmler]

i once had a guitarist tell me that he couldnt get his amp to go any quieter. i laughed in his face and reached over to the volume knobs on his guitar (both of which were maxed) and turned it down for him.

[OldsCool]

The guitarist should switch to in-ear monitors. He'll save his hearing and yours.

[Joe Nerve]

Band name thing wouldn't matter to me, guitar thing would matter bigtime, and the tuning down thing is ridiculous. Either tune down for everything, drop the 4 songs, or play them a half step down without tuning down.

[unclekebm]

Originally Posted by j.stemmler

i once had a guitarist tell me that he couldnt get his amp to go any quieter. i laughed in his face and reached over to the volume knobs on his guitar (both of which were maxed) and turned it down for him.

LOL
I did that once and got fired...

They hired me back 2 weeks later
then I quit 2 years later
for the same reason - Not only was he way to loud, He was a 'hack' couldn't play his way out of a wet paper bag
& absolutely no sense of rhythm...

It took 2 years 'cause the 'pay' was good - I'm such a sell-out

[D.E.C.]

If you are not happy, I'd bail (unless you need the income). I'm not a believer in using subs. If a guy in our band can't make it, we don't book the gig. I know some people feel differently, but my belief is that a "band" is just that: a band. Alot of guitarists are OK with subs...until YOU book a gig with a different guitar player (This is deemed unacceptable...LOL!!). As far as the volume issue, raising his amp to chest/head height may work, but I'm getting the vibe that this guy thinks he IS the attraction...so you may be beating a dead horse. When you have one guy who thinks he knows what's best for everyone, the term "band" goes out the window.

[jnewmark]

I was in a cover /wedding/corporate party band for 15 years. Usually you will get told to turn down by the manager/audience if you are too loud. We had a sub for everyone in the band due to our hectic schedule, and sometimes we had as many as 4 at one gig. Nobody in the audience batted an eye as to who was there and who was'nt if the music was good. The horn section all had charts so we could mix and match no problem as far as they were concerned. We had a front guy who had a sub. Both could actually sing and we did all the songs in the original key, with very few exceptions. I realize playing in a loud rock club is different than playing in a small banquet room, but, usually, the musicians I played with all had a professional attitude ( yes, even the guitar player ), and once asked to turn down, it did'nt have to be asked again. Get used to playing with subs, be mindful of volume according to venue, but above all, act professionally.

[lunarpollen]

I don't get the whole downtuning a half-step because it's easier for the vocalists. It's a freakin' half-step! It's not like half an octave or anything! If you're a singer who can't sing some songs in the correct pitch a half-step higher, then practice a few times at the correct pitch and you'll get it.

[Moe Monsarrat]

There's way too many good players around to even fool with anything less.