Would you?... Need some feedback.

[etherealme]

I know questions such as these could be fielded better on a case by case basis but I thought I'd start out getting a feel for what most of you gigging musicians feel is "out of bounds".
I have my other issues with the present outfit I'm in but the most paramount issue is as follows:

Would you protest if the the vocalist/ songwriter wanted to hire his/her spouse as the band manager? Your profits are involved, etc. In other words, how many of you would consider this an automatic deal breaker.

I'll be much more specific later down the line... Thanks a bunch!

[Yerf Dog]

Do they have any experience?

[Chris Hodges]

I would have to say it's not an instant deal breaker but you should investigate. If their significant other has any marketing background or can prove they are worth their salt, I say give them a chance. There should be a contract and everyone needs to know everything about it. I think that, as long as it is handled professfionally, then it can save a little money in management fees. Watch those Ps and Qs, though; it's a lot easier to embezzle when you have an insider helping you. They could gang up and it would be forever until you notice.

[DeluxeRed]

I wouldn't consider it any more of a bad deal--because they were the singer's spouse--than I would consider it good deal because they were. It is irrelevant to the business of managing a band. If they can bring the business and wrangle cats, who cares? NO manager should be getting paid from anything other than the business they bring, in which case you've lost nothing, since getting paid a smaller proportion of business you wouldn't have had otherwise is more than not having it at all.

Now...if it gets to be un-business like, then that's an issue, just like it would be if any member of the band or the manager were acting inappropriately.

[P. Aaron]

It may take extra effort, but you'll now need to know the details of every gig regarding compensation and what the band agrees to do with that compensation: t-shirts, promotions, bandmates pay or whatever. A decent accounting of what the expenses are should be explained if not detailed in writing.

At the same time, if the 'spouse' is a go-getter and displays an ongoing effort to get your band good gigs, you'd still want to keep an eye on it, but be thankful someone is doing that job with some zeal.

If they're doing it because think they should manage you guys because; 'they know best'. Ask them (& yourself): Do you really?

[Stumbo]

What would be the specific duties of the spouse/band manager?
Is there a contract? Who would sign the contract?
Who will review and judge her performance?
What if the other band members want to fire her later on?
How would she be paid?
What experience does she have?
What's the band's business plan?
Who signs on the band's checking account?
Do the band members get to see the bank statements?
Has the band leader been upfront about other things?
Is this a way for the band leader to make more money for his family?

[etherealme]

Originally Posted by Chris Hodges

I would have to say it's not an instant deal breaker but you should investigate. If their significant other has any marketing background or can prove they are worth their salt, I say give them a chance. There should be a contract and everyone needs to know everything about it. I think that, as long as it is handled professfionally, then it can save a little money in management fees. Watch those Ps and Qs, though; it's a lot easier to embezzle when you have an insider helping you. They could gang up and it would be forever until you notice.

Originally Posted by Stumbo

What would be the specific duties of the spouse/band manager?
Who will review and judge her performance?
What if the other band members want to fire her later on?
How would she be paid?
What experience does she have?
What's the band's business plan?
Who signs on the band's checking account?
Do the band members get to see the bank statements?
Has the band leader been upfront about other things?
Is this a way for the band leader to make more money for his family?

All great responses and echo what I was initially thinking. Very helpful. I suppose there is no chance in getting my points across on this one and will end up with me splitting eventually. How do you tell a primadonna singer that's already quite touchy that hiring their wife as band manager is a conflict of interest?!
Now, I'm going to reveal how naive I've been just because I believe in us as musicians and the MUSIC. No, she does not to my knowledge have any experience, and stands to according to how much she irritates me alone, alienate more club owners than I could see her bringing into the fold.
I'm extremely concerned in the opacity of these business arrangements when these two are working every angle for their own personal gain.

Woe is me....

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

What would be the specific duties of the spouse/band manager?
Who will review and judge her performance?
What if the other band members want to fire her later on?
How would she be paid?
What experience does she have?
What's the band's business plan?
Who signs on the band's checking account?
Do the band members get to see the bank statements?
Has the band leader been upfront about other things?
Is this a way for the band leader to make more money for his family?

All good points when defining roles and responsibilites, but....

No matter how well things are drawn out, I double-durn guarantee you that when you do voice a dissenting opinion / view, your lead singer will run to his / her spouse's defense irrespective of the logic of your argument.

IMO, the answer is a resounding "no".

Edit: After reading post #7, I strongly suggest you consider other available band projects.

Riis

[standupright]

not worth it. especially based on both of your posts. i think you know where this is heading.

[JustDavid]

Well, this situation is an obvious bail-out, but I don't think every situation is.

Good advice above. A good litmus test might be how they answer "Can a majority of bandmembers fire the manager?"

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by Yerf Dog

Do they have any experience?

Depends if the singer is good and if the spouse/whatever has actual experience and/or skills in the field.

[phatbass]

(Warning: cynicism follows)

Unless the person in question is a bona fide, experienced manager...

Run away.

Now.

General rule of thumb: if someone is getting the job because of who they are, rather than what they can do (and have a PROVEN track record of doing), you're gonna suffer.

I could be unkind and say it's a scam to increase the amount of the band's earnings which go into their (presumably) collective pockets. At the moment, only the singer's cut goes into their household finances. If the spouse is a "manager", and getting an earn as well, a larger percentage of band earnings goes into their combined household finances. Legally.

He can afford to take a hit on his earnings as a band member, because between them they're gonna be earning more. Keep this in mind when you're doing a cheap gig "to get a foot in the door".

Here's the scenario. Pretty soon you'll be told ONLY the wife/spouse is allowed to chase up gigs. He/she will probably be taking a commission on gigs they get in places that you've already played at, that someone else did the hard yards to get originally.

The band will suddenly start paying a portion of their phone bill or buy them a cell-phone and pay for call charges. Of course, it'll "only be used for band business". If not this specifically, there will be other stuff the band will start paying for which in the real world is a cost of doing business.

Excuses/reasons WILL be found for paying band members less of a cut (see the bit about collective income).

Pretty early in the game, the vocalist/ songwriter and spouse will start treating it as "their" band, and make decisions unilaterally, but ostensibly on your behalf, that the band wants to do or not do particular gigs for whatever reasons. It will be presented as doing you all a favour so "you only have to be concerned with the music, man; she/he'll deal with all this horrible dirty business stuff so you don't have to worry about it". Here; have a lollipop and go play in the yard.

And a bunch of the new gigs will be, on average, for less than you have been getting. There will be perfectly valid reasons/excuses given or this. Once again see the bit about collective income.

And you'll start finding it hard to get detailed specific *HONEST* information on how much you're actually getting paid for gigs.

I've been through this scenario about half a dozen times, and the results ranged from, at a minimum, band members starting to get, on average, less money per gig, to, in the case of a couple of bands, outright dishonesty and fraud.

Watch the Spinal Tap movie; what happens when the Girlfriend takes over management of the band is painfully close to truth.

The only way I could accept this is: DON'T call the spouse a manager. If they're only going to be getting gigs, they're NOT a manager. A manager (theoretically) has input into band decisions, business and otherwise, and organisation. This input varies from band to band. If they want to have input, tell them bluntly to F*** OFF!!! It's a takeover bid from the singer.

I'd be happy to pay anyone who gets the band gigs a flat commission of 10-15% (depending on your area) with the understanding that they're NOT exclusive, i.e. anyone outside the band who can get the band gigs, can do so, and will be paid the same commission.

Also, as an aside, make it clear what the conditions of a band accepting a gig are; i.e. minimum pay, travelling distance, playing times.

[Chris Hodges]

Originally Posted by Zooberwerx

No matter how well things are drawn out, I double-durn guarantee you that when you do voice a dissenting opinion / view, your lead singer will run to his / her spouse's defense irrespective of the logic of your argument.

Agreed. Particularly after post #7...I think I might have to start secretly scoping out different avenues 'cause this just sounds bad.

[Lady Kayri]

Any way you and rest of band mates can get together and get rid of the singer, or is it more or less the singer's band anyway? In any case, if it looks like things are going south and you have to cut out, do so in a professional manner - no need to burn bridges, it usually ends up with YOU looking bad, not your former band... As above, start looking for a new project or two, and when you've got a good prospect nailed down, tell them you're not happy with the new direction the band is going, and have found yourself a new band that you feel far more comfortable with. (yeah, I know - easier to say than to do, neh?)

[Staccato]

Unless I'm reading between the lines too much, it smacks of 'our' band possibly evolving into 'their' band-the singer's along with his wife. Hmmm.
Edit: If things can't stay mostly agreeable among all of band members about who's managing, or decisions, it can quickly equal dissention in the ranks...

[Moe Monsarrat]

I am the bandleader on stage in my groups. My girlfriend helps book the band because she owns a club & does that all the time anyway. She was involved in the music business long before I came along & she knows exactly what she's doing. My band mates all knew her & trusted her before we were together. I know my situation is somewhat unique & I can & have seen this sort of thing NOT work. The potential for drama is huge & making it work depends on folks not indulging in it. Maybe the best thing is to meet & let them know what the pitfalls & advantages could be. Then, if something happens at least everyone will sort of be aware & see it for what it is. It's a potential sticky situation on one hand, but if it works you could get a lot more work done for yourself than if you used an agent who has 12 other bands.

[dmusic148]

I say stick around awhile and see how it goes. Nothing to lose, right?
If it goes bad, split.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by etherealme

Would you protest if the the vocalist/ songwriter wanted to hire his/her spouse as the band manager? Your profits are involved, etc. In other words, how many of you would consider this an automatic deal breaker.

Okay, I wouldn't go so far as to say "dealbreaker" but then I am the eternal optimist, which sometimes comes back to bite me in the ass.

I can honestly say, in my 30 years as a working musician and other types of employment, that the "spouse partnership" more often than not has some serious drawbacks and complications, many of which can strongly impact your overall mental health and feelings of accomplishment. When they are getting along, it can be great, but when there is conflict, better find someplace to hide. And when one of them has a problem with you, expect them to side with each other, which put you in a two-on-one scenario. And when they argue and threaten to sink the ship (like couples sometimes do) that has implications for you as well.

Food for thought.

[jaywa]

Ideally one will keep family relationships (by which I include husband/wife or other S.O. relationships) separate from the band. I have played in several bands where a husband/wife or father/son relationship is in play and except for one of them, they all turned out pretty well... HOWEVER these were all cases where both parties were members of the band.

In the OP's case, however, a spouse will be directly responsible for the band's booking and financial matters. I get a bad feeling about that. Your manager should be devoted first and foremost to the interests of the band as a unit... there should never be a situation where the manager is choosing between what's best for one member and what's best for the group.

Not to mention, what happens if the marriage breaks up before the band does? Then it could get really messy. I've never been in your situation, but I'd stay away.

BTW and FWIW, I know of a couple of bands where one of the members' spouses is their sound tech and I feel the exact same way about that. Doesn't necessarily mean they will make their spouse sound great and the rest of the band sound like s**t, but why get in a situation where that can even happen?

[Stumbo]

I suggest you let the singer know that your sister (or other family member) is available to "manage" the band and that you would rather have her/him do it just to get the singer's reaction.

I mean, if it's important to have a manager, why does it have to be his wife?