Would You Sub After Getting Burned?

BillyIVbass · #1 07-13-2011, 11:32 PM

Cover band stuff.

Basically I play in a cover band, our guitar player is a good dude and is playing out his remaining shows with another band as well as our shows...

Their bassist has personal issues. I said I'd be happy to step in. I start learning the set and get a call that the bassist can magically play this weekend after I busted my hump learning 3 sets of tunes and now won't see the cash from those 2 gigs.

After this weekend they are more than likely going to ask me to sub.

Would you? Where do you put your foot down? I don't want to stir anything with the guitarist since I play in another band with him, but I also don't like being under appreciated.

lowendgenerator · #2 07-13-2011, 11:39 PM

It happens. Doesn't mean they don't appreciate you, just means that they'd rather use their normal bass player if he's available. Don't look at it from a point of "I won't see the cash from those 2 gigs." Look at it as "I'm gonna be the first guy they call when their bassist flakes out again."

I learned 3 full albums worth of original music and ended up not getting the gig because the band decided to go with the original lineup. Do I feel burned? Meh, not really. It was good exercise.

Hakkuna Mattata?

seanm · #3 07-13-2011, 11:40 PM

You've learned the songs.... might as well play them

Stumbo · #4 07-13-2011, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyIVbass

I start learning the set and get a call that the bassist can magically play this weekend after I busted my hump learning 3 sets of tunes and now won't see the cash from those 2 gigs.

Totally un-pro by them. You should still get paid.

**jmattbassplaya** · #5 07-13-2011, 11:51 PM

Ask for cash upfront next time.

Joe Nerve · #6 07-13-2011, 11:51 PM

Last year a guy I sometimes play with stiffed me some money. I was promised a guaranteed $125 for a gig that I didn't want to play, and then he gave me $80 at the end of the night because the bar screwed him badly. I was pissed and told him not to call me any more. A few months later he texted me and asked if I wanted to play another gig. Against my better judgement I let bygones be bygones and did the gig. I wound up playing about 20 decent paying gigs over the next few months with him.

You learned the stuff. Getting upset is understandable. Taking it out on them in any way or showing you're upset won't do anything good for anyone. Swallow it, fake a smile, and the next time they ask tell them you'll only do it if they guarantee you the gig.

BillyIVbass · #7 07-14-2011, 12:07 AM

You guys offer good points like I should play it since I've learned it and ultimately I should man up and just play it. I like to play, I know their stuff and I'd most likely not have other gigs those nights.

I guess out of selfishness I want them all to wash and wax my car for screwing me over an entire weekend! (jokes) .... Their current bassist has been in the band maybe a month and it's a cover band. I could appreciate an original act with a following wanting to keep an original lineup, but ahhhh just bugs me.

tekdiver500ft · #8 07-14-2011, 04:56 AM

It's okay for it to bug you. Heck, I'd go so far as to say it should bug you. Just don't let anyone know that it does. Stuff like this happens. Remember, you're dealing with musicians, so there is bound to be some degree of flakiness involved, it's just part of the business. If you let it show, you may not get another opportunity, and they may even tell other bands, and you won't get work anywhere...

Russell L · #9 07-14-2011, 06:38 AM

I know it happens, but that doesn't make it right. In my book, I believe in sticking by your word. I just went through that with my regular band. I had offered to sub with another band on a date when we weren't booked. I cleared it with my regular nad leader. When my regular band suddenly had a date come up, I told my regular band leader that I had to honor my word to the other band. He said he understood, and appreciated that. I think that if the other band had given you dates, they should've kept it that way. But, don't take it too hard, for like I said, it happens, and it won't be the last time something unjust happens. You just have to take it sometimes.

jaywa · #10 07-14-2011, 09:52 AM

Seems like a lot of threads on TB lately about subs getting jacked one way or another.

Hope that's not becoming a trend...

turbo chicken · #11 07-14-2011, 10:08 AM

I have learned from post like this... to make the following statment in some form if I am ever asked to sub.

"I'm going to learn your set list this week. I will have several hours invested into this by XX date. Can you guarantee me that I will be working this gig before I start working on your set list? It will be dissapointed if I don't get to play the gig after I've started working on this because I won't be compensated for my time."

MatticusMania · #12 07-14-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyIVbass

Cover band stuff.

Basically I play in a cover band, our guitar player is a good dude and is playing out his remaining shows with another band as well as our shows...

Their bassist has personal issues. I said I'd be happy to step in. I start learning the set and get a call that the bassist can magically play this weekend after I busted my hump learning 3 sets of tunes and now won't see the cash from those 2 gigs.

After this weekend they are more than likely going to ask me to sub.

Would you? Where do you put your foot down? I don't want to stir anything with the guitarist since I play in another band with him, but I also don't like being under appreciated.

Well, it sounds like they'll still hit you up to sub for them in the future, so your busting your hump was not for nothing. Now you know those tunes, and will be ready when they do need you. I'd take the gigs if offered.

TomB · #13 07-14-2011, 10:57 AM

If their bass player continues "having issues", you could find yourself in the same place again. Like someone said, only confirm the future work only if they're willing to give you the same confirmation in return. "Fool me once.... etc.".

As far as right or wrong, I know when I say yes to a gig it means yes, no matter what opportunity comes along afterwards... sometimes to my financial detriment. It really does matter to your reputation in the end if you rely on sub work. So can you expect the same ethical treatment in return? Unfortunately, you already know the answer....

TheVoiceless · #14 07-14-2011, 11:05 AM

Don't take it personally. Bands/Musicians are not the most consistent people nor is the business. And that is just the nature of it. Its happened to me before.

Being a for hire guy, means being on call last minute and having the rug pulled out last minute. At least that is what I have found from my recent experience.

bigfatbass · #15 07-14-2011, 11:35 AM

Backed a grammy winner on Sunday, founding member of my band, so I knew 90% of what he wanted us to do for him out of the gate. Got an email a few weeks back with 2 more songs to learn. One a straight blues change, the other a much more involved arrangement, with distinct sections and hits, and BIG dynamic moves (A/A/B/A1/B/A2/C/A/A1/B, and those aren't the chords, just the arrangement chart!). Spent most of an afternoon shedding on it, and then get the call he has decided against us playing the cold material. When it comes down to it, that was the right move (rule of thumb: don't rehearse in front of 8000 people), but am I pissed I wasted my time/brain juices? Hell yeah. Did I needle him with a big grin about paying me an hourly for the time? Also, hell yeah. Did I then forget about it and play the show with joy and abandon? The biggest hell yeah!

Don't be too hard on them. It happens all the time at every level, and is unfortunately the nature of the business. Whole lot of hurry up and wait in our industry, and the better you are at those two things, the farther you'll go.

Learn your s**t, answer your phone, be on time with gear that is up to the gig, say thank you for the work to the band leader, and tip the bartenders.

That simple sentence/mantra has kept me working for 20 years.

bluewine · #16 07-14-2011, 12:11 PM

I had a sub gig last year with a cover band, played maybe 2.5 hours tops for $200.00.

I don't like being taken advantage of, but I have learned from TBers it goes with the territory.

essentre · #17 07-14-2011, 12:18 PM

This just happened with me as well. I was sent a bunch of dates and songs to learn. I learned almost 3 sets worth of material. I then sent emails and made phone calls to confirm the first date, that weren't returned for 2 weeks. Finally I sent one last email that wasn't mean, but was basically saying "What the hell happened". We spoke and although I wasn't ok with it, I let it go. We then spoke some more about them still needing me. Since then I've done a few new dates with them and have a few more coming up.

As Troy said, too many bands are flakey and not reliable. I think you have to feel out the situation to see if it's actually worth it. The way I looked at it was it sucks that I might have learned all that stuff for nothing, but they were mostly standards, so now i have them in my pocket for the future.

Eric Moesle · #18 07-14-2011, 12:22 PM

I've learned that musicians aren't always the most organized, thoughtful, professional-acting people in the world.

This is an industry of contacts, we get work by being known and knowing others. You might have lost one night, but any one member of that band might call you in the future for other work.

I take sub work as much as I can, and usually the benefit is NOT the pay from that night's show, but rather from the contacts and good will from doing it. It will pay off better at a later date.

Now, if I actually play the show and someone stiffs me on pay . . . never again unless I'm paid in advance, and I tell them WHY (....politely).

TC2112 · #19 07-14-2011, 12:24 PM

All reputations get around, good or bad. Wanna be a first call sub in your area? smile and say yes. If you learned some songs and don't get to play them this time, I guarantee those songs are on somebody else's list too and you just put yourself in a better position to be the one they call. Learning songs is not getting burnt, it's getting better.

jaywa · #20 07-14-2011, 12:24 PM

The biggest problem with getting jacked like that is, if you are a really busy, in-demand sub, it's possible you turned down another job you could have had on the same date, assuming you'd be playing Job 1... which then you weren't. End result you lost out on both gigs. That's when it really starts sucking hard.

I was on the opposite end of this once in a former band... our drummer had quit so we brought in a good friend of mine (and one of the most in-demand players in town) to drum on the next gig with the understanding if that one went well he'd get the gig after that one as well. 1st gig the guy subs with us goes well, so he blocks off our next gig on his calendar. Then 4 days before our next gig the BL calls me and says he called my drummer friend and told him he wouldn't be needed for the next gig cause the BL had found another guy that wanted to play with us permanently.

I was SOOO pissed at my BL. And I let him know in no uncertain terms what a chickensh*t thing that was to do. I mean really, you couldn't even wait one more gig to put the new guy on? Then I called my drummer friend and apologized profusely for my BL's no-class move and told him I had nothing to do with the decision and I hoped it didn't affect our friendship. Thankfully it caused no problems between me and him but I could tell he was more than a bit irked at my BL.