You didn't write anything

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by rtslinger

yeah it is all about the deal that you agree upon. My original band I wrote 99% of the songs however I did give credit to members contributions if they were important in the songs major appeal such as a signature lead lick, or some hook that took it to the next level. I always believed give credit where credit is due. People always perform better when they feel their contribution is recognized.

Agree^ The singer/songwriter in our band did not want all the credit and even said the bandmates parts that they wrote brought life to his songs.
There is one song on the album that I did allot of work on that brought the song to life. Another song he brought us I tuned around 360 degrees from what he was thinking when he wrote it with a simple bass line. It improved the song so why not get musical credit?

[plankspanker13]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

A case can be made for writing credit if a bass line is considered a signature or essential part of a song. Brick House, 3 Days by Jane's Addiction, most RHCP songs, things like that. Otherwise chords and melody are considered "The Song".

"Glamour Boys" from Living Colour comes to mind; Muzz Skillings is given a writer's credit for his bass line, specifically.

[AuntieBeeb]

Originally Posted by obimark

Pro guys correct me if I am wrong, but Once upon a time there was a thing called "performance" royalties where you actually got something for playing on the tracks. (Maybe this never really happened much I don't know) Does this still exist? at all?

Yeah, I could be wrong but I think if you performed on a recording then you can argue that you're entitled to a share of any royalties from that song for 50 years after the recording was made, unless you've signed any written agreement which states otherwise. (And the writer receives them for 70; at least that's the situation in the UK) Obviously "a share" is a very variable definition, and could still amount to bugger all, but I think you can still claim you're owed something for it.

[backup]

as mentioned above it depends on what the band agreed otherwise its up to the BL or the record company to make the credit.
fred wesleys album "a blow for me a toot to you" is almost completely writtenby george clinton but fred gets the credit. it really depends what you agree on.

if you bass part is essential to the song (ie if you change it the song will not be the same) you should definitly demand more crediting. even though now it may be too late!

aston barrett had that issue with the marley family. you may know that his bass lines are essential to any of bob marleys songs and he was also the band leader, the producer and arranger. and he lost his fight against marley family for his (imo well deserved) royalties. why? because bob marley did not write a testament ie no contract so bob marley gets the credit because he wrote the lyrics and melody

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by obimark

Also this is something that should be agreed to right upfront, I believe Guns N Roses, originally ALL members shared the songwriting credits, including the drummer and bassist, and I know Duff may ahve contributed some things, but not to Every song, other than his basslines.
But who is to say writign a baseline isn't an integral part of a song.
Guess it all depends on what you have in writing up FRONT. IE, if this band sells any recordings I PLAY on, than I am entitled to 1/3 of the proceeds. etc...

If that's your deal, that's your deal. But most songwriters absolutely will NOT go along with that.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by backup

aston barrett had that issue with the marley family. you may know that his bass lines are essential to any of bob marleys songs and he was also the band leader, the producer and arranger. and he lost his fight against marley family for his (imo well deserved) royalties. why? because bob marley did not write a testament ie no contract so bob marley gets the credit because he wrote the lyrics and melody

How about my good friend Albert Anderson's guitar solo on No Woman No Cry?

Blue

[bassfran]

Originally Posted by bluewine

How about my good friend Albert Anderson's guitar solo on No Woman No Cry?

Blue

More like, "No Credit, Yes Cry".

[Downunderwonder]

Paging Music Attorney.

I think the recordings are owned by the whole group unless there is a contract. If the songs were arranged "in group" then the song copyright is also group property, since courts don't care to determine who wrote what bit.

Once again, who is "they"?

[thorplaysbass]

when I said "they" and "them" I was talking about the bandleader. Sorry, didn't realize my words are sometimes weird.

I don't understand how something, especially in a song, can be deemed more important then something else in the same song. That seems it would ultimately end up extremely subjective.

Other then the song writing, though, there was a verbal contract as to how we would all pay evenly for recording time so the band could put out more music.

The bandleader told us how we were getting paid (up to 300 dollar mark meaning no more pay royalties reach 300 dollars). This was not agreed upon though.

Digitally, there have been some purchases, at least according to people's comments on some websites, these sales however have not been mentioned by the bandleader.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by thorplaysbass

when I said "they" and "them" I was talking about the bandleader. Sorry, didn't realize my words are sometimes weird.

I don't understand how something, especially in a song, can be deemed more important then something else in the same song. That seems it would ultimately end up extremely subjective.

Here's how...if you write a song, you are coming up with it completely from scratch out of your own head. Once that song is written and presented to everyone else in the band, everyone else is adding onto an existing song, and that's usually considered "arranging" unless significant changes to the song itself occur. Those significant changes are usually judged on a case by case basis by the songwriter. Sometimes they result in full co-writing credit, sometimes a partial songwriting credit with partial royalties paid accordingly, and sometimes they're judged to be arrangement, resulting in no songwriting royalties.

[uOpt]

Well writing credit or not, they (I guess he) cannot without any agreement just use the bass you played on the recordings and publish it. Unless you signed something that gives them/him the right without compensation.

Also, they/he can prove you have done no writing and no lyrics? You were in the band.

I think it's time to exercise some leverage to get this into some form of agreement.

[bigboy_78]

Is anyone going to get rich publishing these songs. i.e is the bandleader likely to licence these songs to be used in a movie or have them recorded by Taylor Swift? That is when song-writing credits are important and at that point you bass line is probably easily replaced without effecting the song too much. So always assume someone is going to get rich and you want a part of it.

If you are talking about income from the sales of the recording, I am pretty sure whoever paid for the recording owns it. They can do whatever they like with it, but if you put in x% of the production costs I would expect x% of any income produced from it.

Next band, get it all clear up front and in writing. If the bandleader doesn’t want to give you song-writing credits for your parts, they can score them out for you and pay you a session wage.

[Kmonk]

My brother is an intellectual property attorney and I have asked about this in the past. I joined a band and the BL wanted to rewrite some songs with new bass parts and new arrangements. According to my brother, I was only entitled to credit for arranging the songs but I am able to use them to promote myself as long as I give credit to the BL as owning the song. He also said that I could take anything I had written, such as a bass line and incorporate into a new song. He said I could use any songs on which I had played even if I didn't contribute to writing and arranging as long as I listed the owner of the song. Several years ago, my former BL's attorney sent me a cease and desist order because I have some of the songs posted on my website. He was trying to stop me from using them. My brother contacted the attorney and explained my rights. Th BL's attorney never contacted me again. The songs are still posted on my site.

A good rule of thumb is to decide what the agreement will be prior to writing. Then copyright the songs making sure that each person gets credit.

[Munroe]

In some songs, the bass/rhythm is so dominant that it functionally IS the melody.

"Brick House" comes to mind. So does "For The Love of Money".

[backup]

this thread is very interesting.
how about a situation like this:

bassist comes up with a bass line and everyone else joins in and we make a song out of it.the singer then writes the lyrics. the chords and structure are written by bassist + guitarist. the melody was created spontaniously by the singer as any other part.

who gets the cred?

[Downunderwonder]

Originally Posted by backup

this thread is very interesting.
how about a situation like this:

bassist comes up with a bass line and everyone else joins in and we make a song out of it.the singer then writes the lyrics. the chords and structure are written by bassist + guitarist. the melody was created spontaniously by the singer as any other part.

who gets the cred?

I believe this co-writing is assumed by the judge in the case of a dispute where there was no upfront agreement. So everyone gets equal, even the drummer who drummed along with the original bass line and got the guitar player cooking up the signature guitar lick which formed the basis of the hook phrase. Could be wrong.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by derrico1

Actually, the accompanying musicians who help create the original arrangement only get a piece of the songwriting credit if they negotiate for it. (Notice, for example that Pete Townshend holds the writer's credit for "My Generation." Entwistle's inarguably signature bass lines didn't get him any of the songwriting pie, b/c he hadn't negotiated for it.)

Some bands contractually agree to share songwriter's credit equally for all work. Absent such a contract, the people who bring in the lyrics and melody get the songwriter's credits.

This. It's all about a contract. If you don't have one, you don't own anything of those songs. The whole melody and lyrics thing applies. There's no "automatic" bass line law that kicks in even if your bass line is incredible. You could have negotiated yourself a slice before or during the writing process, but it's almost impossible to get ownership after the fact. Even if it was worth to take it before a judge, you probably wouldn't win.

[fdeck]

I suggest a counter-offer: Band agrees that you are the author of the bass part. For $300 up front, you assign them the rights to the bass part.

Kills two birds with one stone. 1) It settles authorship. 2) You get your $300.

[Substandard]

Seeking legal advice on the Internet is the best idea.


Your laws will vary from state to state for this instance. In washington, unless a contract is negotiated, all parties involved have an equal stake in the recordings themselves. What the credits come back to is the rights to the songs themselves.

It's likely you have similar laws. IANAL though.

[mellowinman]

For the most part, whoever came up with melody, lyrics and chord progression is the songwriter. If more than one person contributed to these things, then the songwriting credit should be shared.

Ultimately, whoever sends the work in to be copyrighted is the owner of the song, right or wrong.