Is Your Band Established?

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Not really. In some ways they are one in the same but I know bands that are Established by my view but have hardly made it. I just don't feel the average bar band like Buckin Joe and the Hung Lo's are established since they play 2-3 times a month at the corner dives. That is not my idea of established.

There are tours all over the country with bands I would call established and the guys are eating beans ..just sayin.

I would say if a band is getting paid and they have have good bar gigs every weekend, they might be classified as locally established.

Blue

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I would say if a band is getting paid and they have have good bar gigs every weekend, they might be classified as locally established.

Blue

Again your view v.s. mine. What is locally established anyway? Like I said if a bar band is doing decent gigs that is great but being established means more to me. To me the members have to have bigger interest than just playing around town to be established. Local bands come and go like the wind but a band that is touring ,recorded,has press and is dependent on money to survive can and will go on in most cases.

[Marial]

I don't know about that, but maybe it depends on the style of music. I think bands that get to the point where they're touring implode as often as any other kind of band, it just takes them a little bit longer to get that point. Not to mention, an established (in my view) local band that has a consistent big draw might be considered to be at a financial advantage over a band that is out on the road trying to build an audience in places where no one has heard of them and is either barely scraping by or is going into debt in the process.

Now, if you're talking about established touring bands, that's a different story. Like maybe one or two others, those are bands that, in my mind, have 'made it'. In other words, there are established local bands, which I think is what blue is really talking about, and then there are established touring bands (could be regionally established or nationally).

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Again your view v.s. mine. What is locally established anyway? Like I said if a bar band is doing decent gigs that is great but being established means more to me. To me the members have to have bigger interest than just playing around town to be established. Local bands come and go like the wind but a band that is touring ,recorded,has press and is dependent on money to survive can and will go on in most cases.

You seem to be talking about originals bands only. No cover band is going to seek out a record deal or get much press, no matter how "established" they are. No, a cover band is not established by your definition, but neither is a doctor or a church or a family. Your definition is fine for a narrow type of band but doesn't work for others.

I agree with the person who pegged it to gigs. If you're getting booked, repeats, pulling in people, getting paid (even only a little), covers or originals, that's established in my book.

"Established" is a broad term. You can boil the definition of "established" down to "generally accepted by others" and the definition works for any undertaking or organization or person. If you're generally accepted by others at what you're trying to do, then you're established. But first we have to know what you're trying to do. If your band wants to tour, record, get press, and you're generally accepted in those endeavors, you're established. If you're trying to play the local cover circuit and you're generally accepted in that endeavor, you're established. It would be wrong to say a successful long-running cover band is not established simply because they aren't signed. It's not even on the radar.

Being in a band is about entertaining or otherwise reaching and touching people with music. Even though most music reaches the listener via recordings, gigging is still a big part of playing music. So IMO it goes back to gigging... if you're gigging, you're established. Whether your band is cover or originals will affect the exact details of the definition depending on the goals of the band. But bottom line, if you're getting booked you're established. (Unless you're already well established and have stopped gigging and still continue to reach people à la late-era Beatles. But even then, you gigged in the past.)

My band regularly gets repeat gigs, works steady, gets new gigs, gets inquiries and bookings for one-offs, has a following, gets paid, has been around a while, and is known in the cover band circuit. We don't have a record deal (why would we?) but we're established.

"Established" doesn't really apply to jam bands or basement bands since outside acceptance isn't part of the goal. Therefore gigging is a good measure.

[bluewine]

I agree with Chrisb.

My band has been together for 7 years and we gig 1-2 weekly. We have no interest in a recording contract. We focus on our local bookings.

Blue

[bluewine]

Maybe we are established, received this from a lady this morning on a dating site I use, LOL.


"I think I saw you at the Wisconsin StateFair last Summer.. ABC Blues Band? How is it you are a musician and you dont'have hordes of women flocking to meet you. I love musicians. Was that your band I saw?"

blue

[DWBass]

So by bassbully's definition.....

A band (cover band) that has been around for 40 years and has gigged steadily their entire existence, is well know in the region (7 cities and beyond), albeit mostly local gigs, plays top money affairs, is NOT established?? Sorry! Established is established and this band is an establishment in itself! Everyone is entitled to their opinion, though!


Carry on..........

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Again your view v.s. mine. What is locally established anyway? Like I said if a bar band is doing decent gigs that is great but being established means more to me. To me the members have to have bigger interest than just playing around town to be established. Local bands come and go like the wind but a band that is touring ,recorded,has press and is dependent on money to survive can and will go on in most cases.

Locally established would be a local band with a name that draws a crowd and getting top $$ at the better venues. Many of these bands have been around for 25 plus years and have never had interest in touring or recording.

How would you define that type of band, un-established?

Are you saying a touring band with a record out, that has been together a year with no following , no one comes to their shows is, established?

Proceed

blue

[Mattosaur]

The only place I've ever seen a musician use this word is in ads looking for new members. It's just a code-word that is supposed to mean the band is working, or was working, or something similar.

I don't think it's a useful term beyond any of those uses, and honestly, it's not really useful in a CL ad either, since it's almost always a lie.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by Mattosaur

The only place I've ever seen a musician use this word is in ads looking for new members. It's just a code-word that is supposed to mean the band is working, or was working, or something similar.

I don't think it's a useful term beyond any of those uses, and honestly, it's not really useful in a CL ad either, since it's almost always a lie.

Maybe it's not a classification a band should give themselves, if a band is seen by outsiders as established maybe that makes them established.

As for CL I agree:

"If your band was established you wouldn't run an ad on CL.

Blue

[fdeck]

At some point "established" becomes just another CL buzzword like "serious" and "professional."

[bassbully]

Ok, so we don't agree on what's an established band..cool. To me it needs to be a band that supports the players and is more of a business. I was not really pointing this at originals bands but I guess to me they could be the only bands capable of becoming established since they are not reproducing others music all the time. The only other type bands that could be established in my mind are tribute bands, brass bands and polka bands since they do covers and standards...there might be other band types I can't think of at the moment.

This was not a knock at cover bands but it appears it reads this way...sorry, but to me they are the only bands competing for more than gig dollars etc.

I know a local blues guitarist who is a full time musician. He promotes himself and plays 3-5 days a week in my market and that is no easy deal since it suks around here. He also plays overseas a few months a year. He works very hard and it is all he does for a living. I feel he is established and he does a ton of covers BTW.

My band is local/regional 1-3 gigs a month sometimes less and we book ourselves around our band mates schedules and all have jobs and families. I would not call our band "established" and we have been around 4 years and stay pretty busy for an originals band.
I guess it's just my way of thinking that to be established means more than being a local band no matter what music you play, your draw or what money you make. It's bigger than that to me.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Ok, so we don't agree on what's an established band..cool. To me it needs to be a band that supports the players and is more of a business. I was not really pointing this at originals bands but I guess to me they could be the only bands capable of becoming established since they are not reproducing others music all the time. The only other type bands that could be established in my mind are tribute bands, brass bands and polka bands since they do covers and standards...there might be other band types I can't think of at the moment.

This was not a knock at cover bands but it appears it reads this way...sorry, but to me they are the only bands competing for more than gig dollars etc.

I know a local blues guitarist who is a full time musician. He promotes himself and plays 3-5 days a week in my market and that is no easy deal since it suks around here. He also plays overseas a few months a year. He works very hard and it is all he does for a living. I feel he is established and he does a ton of covers BTW.

My band is local/regional 1-3 gigs a month sometimes less and we book ourselves around our band mates schedules and all have jobs and families. I would not call our band "established" and we have been around 4 years and stay pretty busy for an originals band.
I guess it's just my way of thinking that to be established means more than being a local band no matter what music you play, your draw or what money you make. It's bigger than that to me.

I think I have to take sides with the others.

For me established has nothing to do with meaning more of anything. If your band is working every week and have been for several years and venues call you, your band has established it's self in the market, cover or originals.

It's not clear to me how a band is established because they have a vision to record and tour.

Blue

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by bluewine

I think I have to take sides with the others.

For me established has nothing to do with meaning more of anything. If your band is working every week and have been for several years and venues call you, your band has established it's self in the market, cover or originals.

It's not clear to me how a band is established because they have a vision to record and tour.

Blue

Ok..that's cool.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Ok..that's cool.

Cool.

Seems like your bringing the "make it" element into your definition.

If a band, original or cover isn't focused on "making it" regardless of the business they generate, their following or years of service they can't be considered an established band.

Blue

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Cool.

Seems like your bringing the "make it" element into your definition.

If a band, original or cover isn't focused on "making it" regardless of the business they generate, their following or years of service they can't be considered an established band.

Blue

Again its just the way I see it. A working band is what it is, a band that has made it has to be established. To me "making it" and established are the same thing.

I have been in bands that have done well but never did I consider us making it or that we were established. To me there are bigger steps you have to climb to be that and just gigging at the local level is not one of them.

[busmandan]

Originally Posted by bluewine

Maybe we are established, received this from a lady this morning on a dating site I use, LOL.


"I think I saw you at the Wisconsin StateFair last Summer.. ABC Blues Band? How is it you are a musician and you dont'have hordes of women flocking to meet you. I love musicians. Was that your band I saw?"

blue

I got a piece of paper passed to me at a gig last Saturday. It came from a group of kids celebrating a birthday. It read, " Please call me - I'm over 18 "

I'm 55. I didn't call.

[bluewine]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Again its just the way I see it. A working band is what it is, a band that has made it has to be established. To me "making it" and established are the same thing.

I have been in bands that have done well but never did I consider us making it or that we were established. To me there are bigger steps you have to climb to be that and just gigging at the local level is not one of them.

You do know that there are bands that never "make it" and never get to the point where they have a circuit of venues to play for pay. But, your saying because they have a vision of making it touring and recording contract and not gig 1, they are established.

I guess for me making it and established are two separate things.

blue

[ChrisB2]

Originally Posted by bassbully

I just don't feel the average bar band like Buckin Joe and the Hung Lo's are established since they play 2-3 times a month at the corner dives.

Originally Posted by bassbully

This was not a knock at cover bands but it appears it reads this way...sorry

HA!

You've used the phrase "I'm not knocking cover bands" a lot lately..... while you are knocking cover bands.



I don't care, I don't get my validation as a cover band member from you or the internet, I'm just pointing out that you seem to be having issues knowing when you're knockin' us and when you ain't.

Your first comment above belongs in your "Covers vs. Originals" thread....

[DWBass]

es·tab·lished
/iˈstabliSHt/Adjective
1.(of a custom, belief, practice, or institution) Having been in existence for a long time and therefore generally accepted.
2.(of a person) Recognized and accepted in a particular capacity.

Synonyms
fixed - founded

Ain't no other way to see it.