All Blues, melody and bassline together, ala Brian Bromberg (kinda)

[junk_funky]

I recorded this with a Shure 58 (I don't have a pickup yet!) and processed the sound in Logic.

It was done 26 days after recieving my upright and having two lessons with my Jedi Master. It's pretty rough around the edges (for real, it drops time at one point!), but this an arrangement that I've played before on my fretless electric that I enjoy doing.

I'm super green in the upright world. I've been playing electric professionally for 2 years now and have been getting better at jazz, rock, salsa, funk, etc. But I feel so noob on this thing, it's very humbling!

Contsructive Critisism Appreciated -

http://www.motherfunkconspiracy.com/...20overdubs.mp3

[jazzbass72]

Hey Junk_Funky,
it sounds great, especially considering you recorded that only one month after getting an upright. Keep up the great work!

-Marco

[-Sam-]

Sorry for being a noob but how do you do that?

[Aaron Saunders]

Originally Posted by Bass_Mule

Sorry for being a noob but how do you do that?

If you look at the link, part of the filename is "overdub." This in and of itself is an explanation -- you record the bassline to one track. Then you start the recording over and record the head and a solo. Ta-da! It's really quite cool. Pat Metheny does it on several tracks of Beyond the Missouri Sky with Charlie Haden, just putting in very sparse rhythm guitar tracks.

I downloaded it, but I'm in the middle of a YouTube video of the OP quartet, so I'll edit this post after I've listened to it.

EDIT: Having listened to it, that's damn good for 26 days. You're right, the time fudges a couple times, but c'est la vie. You can work on that.

My issue with it is that it gets muddy -- that is, because everything is in roughly the same register. Clearly you're somewhat limited by your technique and probably will be for a while, and this IS just a demo, but a few years down the line if you want to record this professionally, I'd suggest a bit more separation in pitch between the bassline and the overdubbed track(s.) That said, I was pretty impressed by your physical command of it already. Sounds neat. Get out there and play!

[junk_funky]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

If you look at the link, part of the filename is "overdub." This in and of itself is an explanation -- you record the bassline to one track. Then you start the recording over and record the head and a solo. Ta-da! It's really quite cool. Pat Metheny does it on several tracks of Beyond the Missouri Sky with Charlie Haden, just putting in very sparse rhythm guitar tracks.

Actually, the text in the file name is "no_overdubs". I specifically wrote that in the line because I did NO overdubs (hence the "ala Brian Bromberg" in the title) and that's worth mentioning. It's a hell of alot easier on electric to explain, so:
While your pinky plays the melody note, in top of the head a B on the g string, your other fingers play the bass line. You have to fudge a little for the C chord section (as you can listen and hear that I only hint at the bass line, while focusing on the melody). Take another listen and try it, it's pretty fun once you get it dialed. Quite challenging, indeed.

And as far as muddy goes, yes, I have no intonation skills at this point near or at thumb position. LIke I said, this was after one month. But that's my main focus right now is upper register intonation. Hopefully I'll be back in a few months with some higher register!

Thanks for the listen and critisism fellas!

Forrestt

P.S. I really enjoy putting together complete pieces on the bass. Here's another one with NO overdubs, naima by coltrane, on electric:
http://www.motherfunkconspiracy.com/mp3s/fdub/Naima.mp3

[Aaron Saunders]

Heh, sorry -- the link has an ellipsis before the filename :P.

The fact you did that without overdubs immediately makes that far more impressive. VERY nice for a month! I haven't listened to the Naima thing yet, but I imagine you must be one hell of a slab player to have transferred over to DB so well and so quickly.

[Jeremy Allen]

Very nice playing for such an early stage! Your intonation is great and you've obviously got an early version of some conception of what you want to do.

About "All Blues" though: you may want to remember that it has no C chord in it, no IV7 chord like a typical blues; after four bars of the I7 (g mixolydian), it simply switches mode to i7 (g dorian). Of course the lowering of the third from major to minor mimics what happens in the fifth bar of a regular blues (the major third of the I chord dropping a half-step to the dominant seventh of the IV chord), but the root never changes and the piano voicings and horn backgrounds demonstrate only this one change. "Kind of Blue" is the modal album, right? So this is the modal blues. (In fact, the turnaround is a miniature of "So What:" d minor for two bars, eb minor for one bar, d minor for one bar, the same chords in the same proportion as the entire AABA form of "So What.")

But lots and lots of people naturally assume "All Blues" behaves like a typical blues and includes a IV chord...

[Aaron Saunders]

You know, I was going to mention that whole debate, but we've already been through that on TB...while that is all true, it's not entirely out of the question to play it AS a blues on some choruses. That ostinato can get pretty ripe around the 42nd chorus of the guitar solo (and that's before the tenor player even hacks at it.)

I mean, it's very common for people to play Impressions with the So What changes, but the "correct" way is with Gsus -> Absus, ne?

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

You know, I was going to mention that whole debate, but we've already been through that on TB...while that is all true, it's not entirely out of the question to play it AS a blues on some choruses. That ostinato can get pretty ripe around the 42nd chorus of the guitar solo (and that's before the tenor player even hacks at it.)

I mean, it's very common for people to play Impressions with the So What changes, but the "correct" way is with Gsus -> Absus, ne?

I definitely don't want to (re)open a debate about what Miles and his crew did vs. what half of all jazz musicians since have knowingly or unknowingly done--I mean, "All Blues" is what it is and the same goes for "Impressions," and multitudes of people playing the wrong thing won't change the identity of the piece. I accept the validity of personal expression and I've played lots of C7 in "All Blues" and lots of "So What" changes in "Impressions," but I still like to bring up these points to make sure that people (especially younger players) are aware of what they're doing. If the C7 is an informed choice, that's one thing; but if it's simply done because "All Blues" is a 12-bar tune with the word "blues" in the title and the performer hasn't taken a hard listen to the actual recordings of the song by its composer, that's not so good. (I'm not saying that I assume the latter situation describes the original poster, but I brought the topic up in case it does.) I've spent a lot of time listening to young players auditioning for college jazz programs, and it's always very obvious when they've learned the tunes from the "Real Book" instead of from the original source material--they replicate the mistakes found therein.

I certainly understand the objection about the staleness of the ostinato, but I've never found that playing it a fourth up for two bars relieves that. I spend most of my time in that tune walking (over the mixolydian-dorian changes), modeled after Ron Carter's live versions I guess, with the ostinato making appearances at the beginning of people's solos to offset the formal point. There are so many rhythmic possiblilites within the 6/4 (polyrhythms and implied meters and different ostinatos--ostinati?) that, if you've got a drummer with ears, playing in some version of G should never get old.

And if we say that sometimes we'll play it AS a blues, does that mean that we'll get rid of the v-bvi-v turnaround and play a ii-V or a V7-IV7? I doubt it; that turnaround is a defining characteristic of "All Blues," just as is the modal shift in the fifth bar (IMHO).

But a PS: I think Ron Carter, in one of the live recordings, would sometimes do a mixed version of the ostinato in the fifth and sixth bars--that is, he would play a C as the root but with the same top notes of the G ostinato (c....d-e-d-f...., d-e-d-c...). Kind of an on-the-fence solution.

[TomSauter]

I'm pretty sure that the turnaround on All Blues is D7#9 | Eb7#9 - D7#5, not D-7 | Eb-7 - D-7. On the original recording the melody notes on this part are A up to Bb, and the Bb is held over on the D7. It also sounds like the piano is playing a Hendrix chord on all three chords. I did listen to a couple recordings on Rhapsody where the melody goes back down to an A, but it was still a dominant chord. On 'Four an More' Ron plays the ole 'open D with the F# on the G string 10th' a couple of times.

[junk_funky]

Alright, I'm busted, how embarrassing .
I've played it that way on casuals with the best cats in my area, and that arrangement, on electric, was my final in a jazz class in college, and no one's ever mentioned that!
However, this being an 'interpretation' piece, I think it works in this setting. I wish I could claim that jazz is all about interpretation,etc. , but I wasn't knowledgable enough of the original to do so. Interesting that the C7 is on all the charts.

Ah, well. Back to the books for me.....

[Aaron Saunders]

Very true...the recording tells all, eh? What's really strange is Mark Levine refers to it as a 24 bar blues waltz with a C7 in the Jazz Theory Book...

Originally Posted by Colonel Sanders

Very true...the recording tells all, eh? What's really strange is Mark Levine refers to it as a 24 bar blues waltz with a C7 in the Jazz Theory Book...

First, I don't mean to be nitpicky. Hope you don't mind. In The Jazz Theory Book, Mr. Levine has "All Blues" in 3/4. Six of one, half dozen of the other, you know? Also, he uses Csus, not C7. Voiced C Bb D F A C as it is in the Theory Book, it's got a G Dorian vibe to it.

Edit: I also like to use the Ron Carter "on the fence" approach during solos on this tune.

Almost forgot. Great playing, junk_funky! You've got a good sound, especially for someone so new to the double bass.

[Jeremy Allen]

Originally Posted by TomSauter

I'm pretty sure that the turnaround on All Blues is D7#9 | Eb7#9 - D7#5, not D-7 | Eb-7 - D-7.

Oops! I'm in the habit of playing minor stuff there 'cause it works with the 7 #9 sound, but of course you're correct.

[Aaron Saunders]

Originally Posted by appler

First, I don't mean to be nitpicky. Hope you don't mind. In The Jazz Theory Book, Mr. Levine has "All Blues" in 3/4. Six of one, half dozen of the other, you know? Also, he uses Csus, not C7. Voiced C Bb D F A C as it is in the Theory Book, it's got a G Dorian vibe to it.

Edit: I also like to use the Ron Carter "on the fence" approach during solos on this tune.

Almost forgot. Great playing, junk_funky! You've got a good sound, especially for someone so new to the double bass.

Yar, very true. About being nitpicky -- you're right, he does have it in 3/4. (Nitpicking again) isn't it also commonly thought of as 6/8?

Originally Posted by Long John Saunders

Yar, very true. About being nitpicky -- you're right, he does have it in 3/4. (Nitpicking again) isn't it also commonly thought of as 6/8?

I believe the Real Book - supreme authority of standards and such - has it in 6/8. I know I was picking nits (whatever that means) in the first place, but when you're at a jam session or a gig and somebody calls "All Blues," it doesn't matter one way or the other. Somebody will count off and most likely everyone will play it properly. If I were transcribing a solo, I might decide to write it in 6/4 for the sake of neatness.

[junk_funky]

The very same real book that says C7?

[Aaron Saunders]

Yeah. That's the one.

Hope my sarcasm in that last post was apparent. :-x