Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Double Bass Forums > Recordings [DB]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Recordings [DB] Double Bass recordings, mp3's, YouTube finds, etc


Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 09-22-2007, 11:13 AM
joel kelsey's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
GOLD Supporting Member
Another how do I sound thread.......

Hello

I will be going into a nice studio to record a demo in the near future. The studio has a wide array of very nice mics, but I know nothing about what mics sound good for bass. Any suggestions for mics and mic placement? If you go to my Myspace page you can hear some tracks I did there for a friend's demo. The two tracks are Ibo Le Le and Summertime. While I like the bass sound, I am not sure if it sounds exactly like my bass. What mics do you guys like and where do you place them? Any help would be great!

Thanks
Joel
Sign in to disble this ad
__________________
www.soundcloud.com/joelkelsey
  #2  
Old 09-22-2007, 02:23 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
Is there a pro engineer on the session? If that is the case let him take care of it. The only thing I won't let them do is plug into my pickup.

My favorite is a Neuman U-87 8" or so straight out from the bridge or sometimes a bit the the G side. I've had guy use a small diaphram condenser up high to catch some finger noise or a mic wrapped in foam between the bridge feet in addition to the U-87. Neither are my first choice but engineers have captured some nice sound that way.

Bottom line though... let the engineer do his job. If you want some input don't tell him how to set up the mics. Ask him to record a little of your sound. Listen back and critique.

edit: I should point out that I own the Rode NTV. It is also a large diaphram tube consdenser. It has been replaced in the Rode product line by the NT Classic. I think it is a GREAT sounding mic and is about $1000 less than the Neuman. This clip has a sample of the sound I get from that mic. It is a clip I posted in a different thread but I think it is very applicable here.
__________________
<make a jazz noise here>
www.marcpiane.com

Last edited by Marc Piane : 09-23-2007 at 06:53 AM.
  #3  
Old 09-23-2007, 11:37 AM
Registered User

Endorsing Artist: Thomastik - Infeld Strings
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: NYC & San Francisco
studio sound

hey man - my advice would be that whatever you do - take both a pick up signal and a few mic chanels - assuming your not recording to tape where chanels are more limited - at the end of the proccess you want to have as much as possible to construct the sound with. Many times when i record - the sound ends being a 90-95 percent mic sound and then an extra 5 percent is direct (i have a gage pick up) and that really helps bring out the fundamental note and pitch. You won't and shouldn't sacrifice any wood - but only gain harmonic stability. My MO is to use a Neuman pencil mic suspended between my two bridge feet - a large mic (engineer's choice) about 4 feet away and then a signal from my gage pick up. this has been the most reliable set up I have used - I am in the studioon sessions usually 2-3 times a month so I like having something I can count on. good luck!
  #4  
Old 09-23-2007, 01:30 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Herne HIll, London....UK
Well I must say I find the bass sound in fingers clip very very nice indeed. What more do you want?

One mic and a man with the fingers at the controls (sorry bad pun) who knows what he is doing....fingers I'm assuming you mixed this.


Let the engineer do the fussing.

I'm not saying that to knock bassdogmer at all...He has been in the studio more times this month than I have this year, but I will add caution to his list of mics and pick ups. Your engineer could surround you in a field of mics and place pick-ups where you never know they could go and still end up with a poor sound. Knowledge is the key.

Bassdogmer knows his set up and knows it works so that is crucial.

I hail from a rather more backward place. A place which is proabaly not suited to your needs: We now only use two mics to record with (but I play in a trio...huh? we just mic the room with an M-S combination and go stereo to tape), but the music I'm involved with just works with this setup and bizzarely we like the lack of control this offers.
I would be open to any approach though.

Have fun.
  #5  
Old 09-23-2007, 01:46 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Herne HIll, London....UK
Ooh I've just re-read my post.

I need to make it clear that I'm NOT knocking bassdogmers set up at all.

He is absolutely right. It will give lots of options with the final mix.
  #6  
Old 09-23-2007, 02:38 PM
joel kelsey's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
GOLD Supporting Member
clarification

Hi all,

There is an engineer, but he is inexperienced with micing basses. We will be working together to find the right mic. This guy is a good friend of mine and is engineering, playing drums, and mixing my session for free. What do you guys think of the sound from my Myspace tracks (Summertime and Ibo Le Le)? There is a bass solo near the end of Summertime which may give you a better idea of what I have so far. We did those tracks with one mic a couple of inches in front of the bridge. I think it may have been a floor-tom mic, but I am not sure. As far as running a signal from my PU, I don't think it will be neccesary and I am not planning on doing it as I am not a fan of the PU sound. I appreciate all your responses. I need all the help I can get......
__________________
www.soundcloud.com/joelkelsey
  #7  
Old 09-23-2007, 03:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Herne HIll, London....UK
I wouldn't worry about the bass sound at all
In the context of the band it sounds nice. Clear (Are you using spiros?).

The playing suits the context of the music well too.

Shame about the sax sound. Was that recorded with a very close mic? One of those clip on things?

Aural aesthetic is a very personal thing though. I'm into the sound of a room, and I like a stereo field to reflect this. (more common in classical recordings)

Your bass sounds like it comes from a space, where as the sax doesn't.

Some people like a very close mic-ed artificially seperated mix that uses the speakers in the listeners room to create space. Ie a lot of pop and rock production techniques.

If you are after clarity of performance then your mysace tracks definitely offer that. If you are after presence of space then a different approach would be needed (however the recorded bass sound would work with both)
  #8  
Old 09-23-2007, 03:17 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
I did mix that clip but I did very little to the bass. No compression or effects. One mic. I think I might have bumped the mid just a touch to get it to stand out from the bass drum but it is mostly me and my fingers.

I like that setup because it is fool proof. Doesn't matter who is at the controls. If the engineer is good then I shut up, if he asks for my opinion I tell him what I said in my first post.

btw thanks for the kudos Thomas.
__________________
<make a jazz noise here>
www.marcpiane.com
  #9  
Old 09-24-2007, 12:51 PM
joel kelsey's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
GOLD Supporting Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas Stone View Post
I wouldn't worry about the bass sound at all
In the context of the band it sounds nice. Clear (Are you using spiros?).


Your bass sounds like it comes from a space, where as the sax doesn't.

The strings are spiros on the E and A with Pirastro Flat-Chrome Steels on the G and D. Now my bass has 4 spiros and sounds much better. Why did I put on those Pirastros???...


As far as the room sound goes, you bring up an interesting point. To me the bass sounds sort of dry (maybe because I was in a small room). I feel like my sound is warmer than recorded. Back to the drawing board. This may be a dumb question, but how much does the room factor into the bass sound? What kind of difference would it make if I was in a large room versus a very small enclosed room?
Thanks in advance
Joel
__________________
www.soundcloud.com/joelkelsey

Last edited by joel kelsey : 09-24-2007 at 12:55 PM.
  #10  
Old 09-25-2007, 06:46 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicago
I personally don't go for a 'room' sound per se. Get the mic far enough from the bass that you get a natural tone. Most of the time I've been in a small room or surrounded by baffles. I'd think a larger or more live room would sound really muddy.
__________________
<make a jazz noise here>
www.marcpiane.com
  #11  
Old 09-25-2007, 01:19 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Herne HIll, London....UK
...I'd think a larger or more live room would sound really muddy....

Yup granted you will lose some definition. My thinking has been conditioned by recording and playing with my trio recently so please take all I say with a pinch of salt

The difference between a small room and a large room can be huge, but they can both behave in odd ways.

Close miking in a large space can be nice (just a hint of ambience) and relatively distant miking in a small room can be interesting too...just watch out for room resonances. The room I've been doing some practicing in recently has a resonant frequency activated by my drummers snare. can get pretty peaky on a recording.

You need to be clear what you want from a recording (creating an ambience, highlighting detail in presentation, a recording of a specific performance etc etc etc and of course a combination of all)

It seems you want everything equally presented (and why not ), so a close miked route is really the best option.
There will be compromises though and failure to achieve certain expectations. Something can always be "better", but don't fret. You're recording at that given moment with a given selection of equipment. It will only yield so much. Of course there are ways to counter certain short fallings, but these can come at a price. Ie warming up your bass might mean you lose some punch from the drums.

Remember you are recording the whole ensemble, not just your bass so something that sounds warmer in the flesh will have a different feel when coming from a pair of speakers on playback. (I regard this as a good thing, otherwise why play live?)

As I said the myspace tracks aren't bad at all apart from a rather thin and unnatural saxophone sound.

Last edited by Thomas Stone : 09-25-2007 at 01:23 PM. Reason: coreection of typos
Reply



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Follow TalkBass on Twitter   Visit TalkBass on Facebook  

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 05:19 PM.




Copyright 2011 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar? Visit our new sister site TalkGuitar.com [beta]
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.