bach prelude

[jmnbass]

hey everyone
I recorded myself playing the infamous bach prelude on my bass
I was hoping if guys could critique it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLYOIP4B4Rg

[Cory Palmer]

Sounds good. I can tell you've put in some good work.

A few things to think about:
Shifts in Bach need to be very clean. You did some that sounded very romantic.

Tempo. For the most part I liked the tempo but there was one spot that you got fast all of a sudden. It was when you have the runs going across the strings towards then end.

Phrasing. Work more on figuring out which notes you want to bring out. When I worked on this for the first time I got a bunch of recordings and went through my music and marked which notes they brought out. I would have a different copy for each performer. I would put lines over the notes they emphasized. If they emphasized certain notes more I would put multiple lines over those notes. Some suggestions for recordings are Casals, Rostropovich, Haimovitz. I love Casals' phrasing.

String crossing. Make sure your string crossing is smooth. Sometimes notes popped out that shouldn't have because the string crossings weren't that great. Make sure your bow is as close to the next string as possible before the string crossing.

[reedo35]

Some good advice from Cory. I wish I sounded like that when I was your age.The only comment I would make is sometimes it looks like you're fighting The Bow.
A more relaxed, smoother stroke would help.
Oh, one more thing... Get a Haircut, Hippie!!

[kurt muroki]

hey good job! I enjoyed listening to your bach. I feel that you know what you want in the piece and that comes across nicely. If I might say something that might help in general... experiment with how much support you give the bow with your pinky especially at the frog. use your thumb and pinkey in opposition to control the bow changes and to get a more refined bach. think about limiting the vertical weight changes and go for speed changes through the bow stroke. hope this helps.

[jallenbass]

Kurt-

Could you go into more detail regarding the use of the thumb and pinkey in opposition to control the bow changes? Thanks.

[kurt muroki]

Originally Posted by jallenbass

Kurt-

Could you go into more detail regarding the use of the thumb and pinkey in opposition to control the bow changes? Thanks.

sure, say if you are playing long bows, on german bow if you put weight into the stick with your thumb only (without changing the pressure of the thumb on the stick) and have no support with the pinkey (take off the pinkey) there will be much less control over the weight change from frog to tip (you get a lot more in the string sound at the frog than at the tip)... now add lift with the pinkey especially to control the weight at the frog (as if you are suspending the bow) and it will help the bow travel horizontally without to much vertical attack or crunch at the frog. this will refine bow control problems. I always recommend a curved pinkey under the frog for more control versus a flat pinkey along the bottom of the frog... On french bow, it is basically the same. to have more control there must be good use of the 1st finger and pinkey. more weight on the back side of the hand (pinkey) lightens the contact of the bow and the strings, and more weight on the front side (1st finger) adds more contact and weight. hope this is more concise. now its usually enough just to be aware of the pinkey, not to actally squeeze.

[kurtsnyder]

That's a nice looking bass you're playing. What is it?

[jmnbass]

thanks man
i have an old czech bass. The guy that restored said it was from, around the 1890s. I have orchestra gauge spirocores and a flat chromsteel g string.

[mcnaire2004]

Wow!! that was verry cool.

[PaulCannon]

In general, there are a lot of good things happening. The intonation needs work, but for the most part it's there. Your left hand technique seems fairly solid.

The first thing I hear in this recording is that the notes and slurs are very uneven, particularly on string crossings. It's like the whole piece has a limp. To fix that, I would start by removing the slurs entirely and playing through it a few times with seperate bow strokes on each note. Then try different slur and bowing patterns. The idea is to completely remove any emphasis where it is not intended. You should have complete control over what you sound like.

After the high D in the middle of the piece, the decending scales are much faster and erratic than anything before it. I think you might need to spend more time with a metronome in that section.

Also, on the subject of bowing, understand that there's nothing saying that you have to play the piece with the bowing you've chosen. Personally, it's not my favorite. Yo-Yo Ma plays it almost entirely seperate. The "original" bowing that is found in the Anna Magdelana Bach manuscript is more random, but it brings out shape to the phrases that might otherwise not happen.

Keep up the good work.

[jdapodaca]

Originally Posted by PaulCannon

To fix that, I would start by removing the slurs entirely and playing through it a few times with seperate bow strokes on each note. Then try different slur and bowing patterns. .

A lot of times I'll do this, and then give things two bows, then three bows, etc. If that's unclear, I mean, a written quarter I'll play as two 8ths, then as triplets, then 16ths, with seperate bows. This really helps me get my left hand happening when its supposed to, and gets me out of the habit of making notes sound too anticipated.

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by jdapodaca

A lot of times I'll do this, and then give things two bows, then three bows, etc. If that's unclear, I mean, a written quarter I'll play as two 8ths, then as triplets, then 16ths, with seperate bows. This really helps me get my left hand happening when its supposed to, and gets me out of the habit of making notes sound too anticipated.

Another thing you can add to this is when you are practicing with a metronome keep pushing the beat over so that the metronome beat lands on the second sixteenth then the third and fourth sixteenths. This will really help make everything even. This usually straightens out any rythmic issues I have.

Rhythm variations help a lot too.

[BMason]

My only advice would be to take more time with every phrase. The phrases in the suites are much longer than phrases of more modern works. Sit down with the music, find the places that you feel should be brought out, and add a little rubato (catch back up with the tempo directly afterwards).

Bach is frustrating, isn't he?

[jdapodaca]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

Another thing you can add to this is when you are practicing with a metronome keep pushing the beat over so that the metronome beat lands on the second sixteenth then the third and fourth sixteenths. This will really help make everything even. This usually straightens out any rythmic issues I have.

Rhythm variations help a lot too.

This sounds like a good idea, I've never tried it. I am not sure I completely understand how you would start this. Do you mean you put the metronome on 16ths, and you also play with 16ths, but you start on the "e" of 1? (1 e and a system.) Could you explain this a little more?

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by jdapodaca

This sounds like a good idea, I've never tried it. I am not sure I completely understand how you would start this. Do you mean you put the metronome on 16ths, and you also play with 16ths, but you start on the "e" of 1? (1 e and a system.) Could you explain this a little more?

Say you have a 4/4 bar and sixteenths through the whole measure. You would start with the metronome landing on each beat like you would normally play with 4 sixteenths to each click. Then you move the metronome over one sixteenth note with keeping four notes to a beat. You keep moving the metronome over one note.

This works great for excerpts like the Beethoven 5 trio. Or anything in 3. Putting the metronome on the 3rd beat of a 3/4measure is the most important. The excerpts that this has helped me out the most in is Heldenleben #9, Mozart 39 1st mvt Allegro, and Brahms 1 at E.

[jdapodaca]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

Say you have a 4/4 bar and sixteenths through the whole measure. You would start with the metronome landing on each beat like you would normally play with 4 sixteenths to each click. Then you move the metronome over one sixteenth note with keeping four notes to a beat. You keep moving the metronome over one note.

This works great for excerpts like the Beethoven 5 trio. Or anything in 3. Putting the metronome on the 3rd beat of a 3/4measure is the most important. The excerpts that this has helped me out the most in is Heldenleben #9, Mozart 39 1st mvt Allegro, and Brahms 1 at E.

I think what is confusing me is that you are saying, "move the metronome over." But you mean, "move YOURSELF over" right?

Say, to 'move the metronome over' one 16th, you would have to start the first 16th of a 4/4 bar of 16ths as a 16th note pickup, instead of on the 1st beat. Yes?

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by jdapodaca

I think what is confusing me is that you are saying, "move the metronome over." But you mean, "move YOURSELF over" right?

Say, to 'move the metronome over' one 16th, you would have to start the first 16th of a 4/4 bar of 16ths as a 16th note pickup, instead of on the 1st beat. Yes?

Yes. That is what I mean.

[Bassist4Life]

Very enjoyable performance. Thank you for sharing that with all of us. You should feel very proud of your ability on the bass. Keep up the good work!

Joe

[jdapodaca]

Originally Posted by Cory Palmer

Yes. That is what I mean.

Ah good. I will try that out with some exerpts. I have a feeling that this will be very confusing at first.

[Cory Palmer]

Originally Posted by jdapodaca

Ah good. I will try that out with some exerpts. I have a feeling that this will be very confusing at first.

It took me a little while to get the hang of but once I figured it out it helped a lot. This is definitely the kind of thing to start at a slow temp and gradually get faster.