Ballad Playing

fingers · #1 01-07-2008, 01:12 AM

I've always been a very rhythmically minded person. Lately I've been working very hard on being more melodic and lyrical in my playing. Specifically I have been working on this in the context of the ballad which has always been a challenge for me.

This link is to a recording of 'In a Sentimental Mood' from a gig Friday. I feel reasonably happy with it but I want to appeal to everyone here and find out how I can better my ballad comping.

Thanks in advance.

Kevin Hsieh · #2 01-07-2008, 01:23 AM

Sounds great man. Just listened to the whole thing.

I don't know enough to give any criticism or helpful advice. Heck, i don't even know how to play a ballad correctly.

Can really see what you mentioned in my thread in this recording. Just gotta calm my impatient and easily excited self.

fingers · #3 01-07-2008, 01:35 AM

Thanks Kevin.

One of the things that has really helped me is breathing. I try really hard to take slow, deep breaths and clear my head of all the clutter. Then I try to formulate very clear and purposeful ideas. We all have the tendency to play notes as place markers. It makes us not get lost in time but it also causes us to play notes that are not always in the best service of the tune at hand.

It has been mentioned before but I am reading Zen in the Art of Archery. It really speaks to this idea.

Valerus · #4 01-07-2008, 01:41 AM

Whoa. That's a nice composition.
I am a double bass newbie, but I know good songs when I hear them.

fingers · #5 01-07-2008, 09:59 AM

Thanks man. I love that tune. I wish I could take credit for the composition though. It is actually a Duke Ellington standard. Thanks for checking it out.

David Kaczorowski · #6 01-08-2008, 09:11 AM

I'm no expert, but here are a few thoughts and observations. You start out sounding really strong, clearly outlining the changes and marking the time. During the sax solo (which imo was way too long, especially if it's going to be followed by a piano solo) you play some really cool rhythmic ideas, syncopating all over the place. That's cool. Now this is just my opinion, and often how much you can play depends on how strong the other cats are, but once you're a chorus or so into the sax solo you might want to start playing something besides root-5th.

You have all those great sounding fills and runs down, what if you use them to target different chord tones? And I mean more than playing runs/fills that outline an inverted chord. Once you get into that and make use of pedals a whole new dimension opens up. Think about the way the chords move, the way the notes of a chord relate to the next chord. Which notes resolve? In which direction? What are the common chord tones?

It sounds to me like you're playing measure-by-measure. What I mean is, it sounds like you're only dealing with the current chord and the chord that succeeds it. Therefore, you're playing a strong functional bassline but you don't formulate and develop any ideas. Try hearing a direction and moving that way using other chord tones and/or delayed resolutions, and keep it going over 4 or 8 bars leading into or out of the bridge or at the end of the form into the top. Just like a good soloist you can build tension using weak or delayed resolutions then release it.

Couple that with your strong rhythmic ideas and you have a thing where through the weak and delayed resolutions you can also build on and develop a single melodic idea over several bars, or for however long until you want to resolve it with a big fat root coming down squarely on the one.

fingers · #7 01-08-2008, 09:21 AM

Thanks David. This is exactly the kind of critique I am looking for. Thanks for the in-depth listen. I'll experiment with some of that stuff.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #8 01-08-2008, 11:26 AM

Hi Marc,

One thing that struck me was how close to the root of the changes you stayed most of the time, especially in those places where one basic change lasts 2-4 bars. If you think of playing half notes in a "2" ballad feel, try creating slow walking lines to connect these tonalities together just as you would connect quarter notes in 4/4. With the way they sustain in a ballad, a lot of tension is created. For example, to connect the Dmi to the Gmi to the turnaround back to Dmi, the following lines could work (all half notes for now):

D...E...F...F#...G...F...E...Eb(or A)...D
D...E...F...F#...G...G#...A...C#(or Eb or other 8ve A)...D

F...E...D...C...Bb...A...G...(A or whatever other approach note you like)...D

Okay, pretty basic and you know all of that stuff. But then experiment (If the other players can handle it) with playing something besides half notes, and maybe making the rhythmic values not a steady symmetrical constant, but still resolving on the downbeat of your choice at the end of the line.

Of course on the bridge you can pedal Ab all the way to the end where it goes to C (and then C# if you hear that); it's a lot like the A section of Body and Soul on the famous Coltrane recording where the Ab works under the whole thing, or you can come out of it at any time, or you can string a bunch of pedal tones together leading to a resolution, etc.

Just a few off the top harmonic ideas, basically just filling in a bit on what David already said. Keep up the great playing!

fingers · #9 01-08-2008, 11:52 AM

Awesome! Great suggestions. Thanks Chris.

Staying too close to the root motion is one of my 'problems'. I'm never exactly sure how much to experiment without getting to the point where I'm not giving the leader what s/he hired me for. Any tips on that?

I'll try the stuff I'm hearing and see how/if leaders react.

Ed Fuqua · #10 01-08-2008, 11:52 AM

You can also just take your hand off the instrument sometimes. I've been trying to get a better sense of rests as notes of late, and there are times epseciallly in ballads when the best accompaniment you can offer for a couple of 3 beats or a bar is actual space. Remember, it's not about notes, it's about the conversation.

fingers · #11 01-08-2008, 11:54 AM

Right on!!! Thanks Ed.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #12 01-08-2008, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fingers

Awesome! Great suggestions. Thanks Chris.

Staying too close to the root motion is one of my 'problems'. I'm never exactly sure how much to experiment without getting to the point where I'm not giving the leader what s/he hired me for. Any tips on that?

I'll try the stuff I'm hearing and see how/if leaders react.

i think you just answered your own question. Try to play a little more in the "Creative/interactive" mode each time and see how the vibe is. I can usually tell when what I'm doing starts to throw somebody off, at which point I feel that I'm not being a very good accompanist at that moment *for that person*, so I'll try to back off a bit and make a mental note of how much of my "creativity" they seem to be able to handle and/or like. Some guys don't get thrown by anything, others want you to be a playalong, and most guys are in the middle IME.