How Do You Record Your Bass?

[musicman5string]

Mic only? Mix of mic and pickup? What kind of mics? Any particular mic preamp? Mic placement?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Here's a post where I describe the micing technique. At home, I simply use a single LDC about 18" in front of the bridge into a nice preamp.

[Ed Fuqua]

No pick up. No. No.

No.

[Dave Martin]

For me, it's usually an AEA R84 combined with a Neumann M582, a Lawson L47 (or a Telefunken U47) or a Crowley and Tripps Ribbon. All work well, each sounds a little different.

[larry]

Earthworks mics are my favorite condensers. Never heard anything better for my taste, even in nice studios.

Good dynamics include: EV RE20, Beyer M88.

I am still messing around with ribbons on DB, but I only have a couple of Beyers - sometimes they might be ok. They give good isolation if that's a problem, but they have massive proximity effect.

There are many other good ones - these are just my favs.

Placement-
Live: As close to the bass as possible while still getting natural sound. Suspended in the bridge legs works well.
Studio with reasonable isolation: Find a spot in front that sounds good. I usually end up a few inches away from the tip of the bridge.

Preamps-
I have not invested in serious pres yet. I'm using a Studio Projects SP828, though it is actually quite decent. Blows away generic mixer pres I've used (Mackie, Yamaha). I'd like a True Systems P8 to replace it eventually, but the SP828 has yet to really make me wish for something better.

I agree that pickups are a no-no.

[bikerbassplayer]

Plus one on the RE-20 . Thats all I use and response
down to 45 and up to 20k. IMO

[musicman5string]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses; here's what I've found price-wise so far:

CADe300: $399.99
Shure SM81: $349.99
AEA R84: $990.00
Neumann M582: $75.00
Lawson L47: $1995.00
Crowley and Tripps Ribbon: $745.00
Telefunken U47: $7500.00
EV RE20: $439.00
Beyer M88: $679.00

Obviously, the Telefunken is outta my range. I'll investigate these mics for now. As far as preamps, the one Chris mentioned is like $5000. Does anyone have suggestions for any mic pre-s that are less expensive and sound good?

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Actually, you can get the UA 2-610 for about $2K, but that's still a lotta bread. At home, I record using cheaper stuff, soudclips of which can be found in This thread. For these recordings, I used an M-Audio Solaris (large diaphragm condenser, about $300) into an M-Audio Tampa pre (about $400), and didn't bother with the upper mic. Realize that all three instruments were recorded in the same room at the same time; when you figure that in, I don't know if the difference in sound is all that appreciable between these cuts and the expensive studio ones.

In general, any decent low-midrange LDC through a decent low-mid range CLEAN pre should get pretty decent results if you experiment a little.

[larry]

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Does anyone have suggestions for any mic pre-s that are less expensive and sound good?

What's your budget, and what are looking to record? (Like what style, are there other musicians, etc.)

Do you have a good room to record in? Is it treated specifically for recording?

Mic selection, mic placement and room acoustics are way more important than the preamp.

[musicman5string]

Originally Posted by larry

What's your budget, and what are looking to record? (Like what style, are there other musicians, etc.)

Do you have a good room to record in? Is it treated specifically for recording?

Mic selection, mic placement and room acoustics are way more important than the preamp.

Budget? Well, gimmee a mic and pre for $50 an I'll be happy! LOL.
Well, a $300 mic and maybe an under $500 pre (if that exists) would be nice.
Looking to record my upright in various acoustic jazz settings.

The reason I want my own mic and preamp is that every studio I record in I get a different sound, regardless of how much I try to get "the sound in my hands" thing...I figure if I'm taking care of getting a good sound out of my bass, then I should take care of the equiptment used to capture the sound, as I can bring a mic and pre to a session with me. Obviously, I cannot bring the room or engineer.

[musicman5string]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

For these recordings, I used an M-Audio Solaris (large diaphragm condenser, about $300) into an M-Audio Tampa pre (about $400), and didn't bother with the upper mic.

Chris, thanks again; I'll check that out tommorrow. Sounds like it fits my budget.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by musicman5string

The reason I want my own mic and preamp is that every studio I record in I get a different sound, regardless of how much I try to get "the sound in my hands" thing...I figure if I'm taking care of getting a good sound out of my bass, then I should take care of the equiptment used to capture the sound, as I can bring a mic and pre to a session with me.

I've done exactly that, and while my home stuff sounded pretty good, the stuff at the studio was obviously better sounding. Last studio session I did, the Solaris was set up right next to the giant CAD LDC, running through an identical pre (I didn't bother bringing my Tampa, since I knew they had extra UA channels available). It sounded good, but the studio mic sounded better. The important thing is to either get a hip engineer, or come up with some reason why they can't have a line from your pickup. There's a great engineer I work with who doesn't even bother with the direct idea anymore when I come in. With other guys, sometimes I just have to say "no, thanks".

BTW, I think the best sound to be found on those cuts is on "I Fall In Love Too Easily", which is the only one (IIRC) recorded with the higher end LaScala.

Originally Posted by LAWRENCE OF RECORDIA

Do you have a good room to record in? Is it treated specifically for recording?

Mic selection, mic placement and room acoustics are way more important than the preamp.

Agree 100%. My room sounded like crap until I treated all of the corners with rockwool absorbers, then treated the windows, parts of the walls, and made a giant rockwool ceiling panel to dry it up a bit. If the room sounds bad, you will, too.

[larry]

Originally Posted by musicman5string

Budget? Well, gimmee a mic and pre for $50 an I'll be happy! LOL.
Well, a $300 mic and maybe an under $500 pre (if that exists) would be nice.
Looking to record my upright in various acoustic jazz settings.

The reason I want my own mic and preamp is that every studio I record in I get a different sound, regardless of how much I try to get "the sound in my hands" thing...I figure if I'm taking care of getting a good sound out of my bass, then I should take care of the equiptment used to capture the sound, as I can bring a mic and pre to a session with me. Obviously, I cannot bring the room or engineer.

The challenge I see is that different playing situations (different rooms, the other musicians in the room, the mic choices on the other instruments, the style of jazz, etc.) can have an effect on the mic choice for your bass. Like Chris said, you can have something good that you like, but the studio may have something better for that situation.

If you have the desire to learn about recording with the intent of doing it yourself, that's a whole new enchilada. Then by all means buy some gear and start learning.

As for your budget, I would personally spend most or all of the budget on the mic. Any decent studio will have nice enough preamps that will exceed anything you can buy for under $500. If it were me, I'd get an Earthworks mic. They are truly a "what you hear is what you get" mic. If I only had one, I'd get a cardiod. You can get an SR30 for about $800 new, or a slightly lesser model with enough left over for a cheap-but-decent preamp (like the Studio Projects VTB-1) for recording yourself at home, and just use the nicer preamps at the studio. Dropping lots of dough on preamps should wait until you have a reasonable mic collection, and you understand room acoustics and their effect on the recording. Good recordings can still be made with cheap preamps (as long as they are not too cheap), but not with bad mics and bad rooms.

Mics can be a very subjective thing, so my recommendation is simply my humble opinion.

[musicman5string]

Originally Posted by larry

As for your budget, I would personally spend most or all of the budget on the mic. Any decent studio will have nice enough preamps that will exceed anything you can buy for under $500. If it were me, I'd get an Earthworks mic. They are truly a "what you hear is what you get" mic. If I only had one, I'd get a cardiod. You can get an SR30 for about $800 new, or a slightly lesser model with enough left over for a cheap-but-decent preamp (like the Studio Projects VTB-1) for recording yourself at home, and just use the nicer preamps at the studio. Dropping lots of dough on preamps should wait until you have a reasonable mic collection, and you understand room acoustics and their effect on the recording. Good recordings can still be made with cheap preamps (as long as they are not too cheap), but not with bad mics and bad rooms.

Very intersting; thanks very much for your input Larry.
Part of what I want is to record at home with my Protools set up, as I'm using an inexpensive mic (Studio Project C1 around $200) with no mic pre at the moment. It's not the best for sure.
Also, what I mentioned about different studios and alot of different sounds bothers me sometimes.

However, I know it's not exclusive to me personally; recently I took out every recording of Dave Holland I own (around 20) and listened back to back analyzing his tone on various recordings. At times you could tell when they mixed in his Underwood with the mic, at times you could hear the Realist and mic, sometimes mostly mic. Of course Dave's sound from playing came through, but I've become very interested in the coloring of a mic and mic pre on my double bass sound.

[Silversorcerer]

I get great results with some inexpensive gear. One of the much overlooked tricks is starting with a good resonant room. If your room sounds good, you are halfway there. Rooms with wood floors on joists (not slab foundations) with plaster walls, higher ceilings and about 25% windows (glass) seem to do the best. No carpet and not much furniture.

I use one of my computers for the main recording function with a Tascam US-122 recording interface. There are many others, but the Tascam has 2 channels that are identical and it allows for condenser mics that need phantom power. It also has a zero latency monitoring function, which is very useful if you want to multi-track record. I use MXL 990/991 condensers which are inexpensive. These are not the most durable mics, but they really sound sweet for the price. The Tascam comes with a good version of Cubase that runs on Windows or Mac and it can be used with just about any other software that you might have such as GarageBand. If you record stereo, place your mics about 2 to 3 feet away from your bass at least. This way you pick up some of the natural resonance of the room and the string noise is reduced a bit. Also if you move around a bit, the levels will not change much like they will if you close mic the bass. CAD makes some inexpensive condensers as does Oktava. Check the reviews on the inexpensive mics. Some are good and some are dogs.

I like to put one of the mics up and the other one closer in and low, then I balance the levels to be even. This gives a more dimensional sound than if the mics are the same height and distance. Whatever mics you use, it is a good idea to invest in the shock mounts or "isolation" mounts that keep vibrations that could be transmitted up the mic stands from getting to the mics.

Altogether my mics, stands, recording interface and software cost me about $400 retail. That doesn't include the computer, but these days an adequate computer is nearly free. The best recording computer for portability, power, and software, IMO, is the newer Intel Macbook which comes with GarageBand. Killer computer, killer software;- easier than falling off a log.

[Silversorcerer]

I think one of the big problems with getting a good sound in a pro Studio (my brother is in that business) is that these are almost always geared to loud electric instruments that are more common. So getting a good acoustic sound is nearly impossible because the rooms have all been deadened too much. Sure, they have the Neumanns and Beyers, and AKG's, but if the room is dead, your sound will be also. Getting the same sound from studio to studio is definitely not going to happen unless you take the "room" with you, or a Fender P.

Considering that some of the best sounding jazz recordings were made in a home living room by an amateur with homemade gear, it is definitely not an area where the "pros" always do the best job. It is possible that you could record your bass tracks in your own studio and let them import them to the group recordings as an independent track. Having your own mics might help a little, but mostly the studio is just going to be offended that you don't trust their equipment, which is probably going to be higher quality than yours. That said, my brother says that the pre-amp must be extremely high quality for the differences in better microphones to show up. So if you spend all the money on an AKG or Neumann and have a cheap pre-amp, you'd probably do just as well with an Oktava or MXL mic. It's a matter of improving the weakest link in the chain first. Usually, the weakest link is the player, so practice is the first priority. Next the room is usually wrong, so getting the right room is next thing. Recording resolution is next. No point having really good mics if you are making MP3s only. If you are recording at 20 bit or 24 bit resolution, then the mics and pre-amps start making a difference. Otherwise you could just plug an SM 57 into an adapter for your computer, put it about a foot from the bridge and get about the same sound, which surprisingly isn't that bad.

[Jason Sypher]

Im just gonna jump in here because I'm dealing with the same question right now. I'm building up a small little home studio: Macbook Pro Core 2, Motu Traveler, DP 5.1. Now what about mics? I'm going to start with the bass first because there is plenty of solo stuff I'd like to get started on first. I'm thinking a large condensor for out front and something articulate for high on the fingerboard. I've unfortunately never paid that much attention in the studios, concentrating more on the music at hand... Here is a short list of possibilities I've culled from asking studio friends, bassists and online forums. Any experience with any of these?

Neumann: TLM 170r, TLM 49, U89i
AKG: C414
Gefell: 930 etc
Charter Oak...

Thanks

[bassist14]

hi jason,

i´m no expert, but i had great results with the neumanns tlm 170 and u89i, and the akg c414.

hope that helps

[fingers]

I've had experience with a few of these.

There are a few samples on my website. Click on 'music'.

This is all to the best of my recollection.

The first tune, Clean and Clear, is a combination of my pickup/mic setup (realist/k&k trinity) and a AKG C414 12" in front of the bridge. It was recorded in a iso booth at a pro studio. I am using a Shen Willow 3/4 with Obligatos.

The next two, 4.23 and Boogie On A Reggae Woman, were recorded using a Neumann U87 and a small diaphragm AKG CK 1. The U89 and C451B are the current models. The U87 was 6" in front of the bridge and slightly to the G side. The CK 1 was up by the fingerboard about 12" off. I was behind some baffles. I used my Shen with Oblis.

Ordeal and Divers were the AKG C414 combined with a Realist in an iso booth with my German ply. Thomastik Weichs.

At the bottom of the page is a version of Caravan I recorded a few years back in my studio. I own and use a Rode NTV large diaphragm tube condenser for db. It has its own external tube pre. For that session I was used my German ply with Thomastik Weichs. The mic was 6" off the bridge. I was in the control room also working the board.

A big part of it is the engineer. If you have any control over the studio you are going to use interview the engineer. Tour the studio. Check out the mic cabinet. Ask lots of questions. I work part time as an engineer myself so I know when a guy is full of it. Go with your gut though. I big part of making good music is feeling comfy. Good luck.

[neal davis]

I've recorded hundreds of times at different studios in my career and I have found that I have lost work in some studios by suggesting my own mics, every producer or engineer will have something different that they want out of the bass and no one mic will be right for every situation. That said when I do get to use some of my own mics I usually use ribbons either a royer, rca or even a cheap apex ribbon I have about a foot and a half in front of the bridge and get great results. I have also found that moving the proximity of your bass to mics that you think don't capture the true sound of your bass helps alot with trying to get your sound but every room is different and every bass is as well