Paul Chambers, So What, and the Low E flat

Ric Vice · #1 09-29-2006, 01:43 PM

Ok Folks. I'm listening to Kind of Blue where Paul and Bill Evans play that incredible introduction and reading through the transcription when I hit the 2/4 bar and "low" and behold Paul the Wizard plays an E Flat. So, did he tune down to get the note and quickly tune back up to play the signature bass line, was there an edit there in the master tape, or was he using a bass with a extension? Tis a puzzlement and a wonder.

Ric

Ed Fuqua · #2 09-29-2006, 02:22 PM

Prolly an edit. A buddy of mine had the whole out takes from KOB on his IPod and let me check it out for a minnit. They Frankenstein the head out on FREDDIE FREELOADER and there are a BUNCH of passes at the intro to SO WHAT...

Uncletoad · #3 09-29-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Prolly an edit. A buddy of mine had the whole out takes from KOB on his IPod and let me check it out for a minnit. They Frankenstein the head out on FREDDIE FREELOADER and there are a BUNCH of passes at the intro to SO WHAT...

Wow. I had no idea. I'm no naive. I thought that stuff was all clean takes.

**Adrian Cho** · #4 09-29-2006, 03:12 PM

My understanding is that he tuned down (and then back again).

Ed Fuqua · #5 09-29-2006, 03:27 PM

UNCA TOWED - yeah, me too. It was pretty fun to check out, if you get the chance. There's was some stuff that got dumped cause of one of the horn players getting too far off mic or noise in the background. But apparently Miles had some pretty specific ideas about tempos; there are a number of perfectly good takes of FREDDIE that he whistled everybody out of because he wanted a hair faster or slower.

On the take that has alla the solos that made it on the record, Miles hisself comes in a hair before the other two horns on the "Fre..ddie'' phrase. So they pick up in PC's last chorus and play another head out that gets Frankensteined onto the end of that take.

The intro to SO WHAT, there's (if I recall) about 9 or 10 runs at it with varying amounts of success. Hyland had to get his IPod back at that point, so I don't know how long that went on....

Uncletoad · #6 09-29-2006, 03:34 PM

So where can I find that stuff?

Ed Fuqua · #7 09-29-2006, 04:49 PM

Lemme check with Hyland.

He's a great cat, a drummer, apparently Sam Jones was a family friend and would sometimes babysit Hyland in the afternoons, if his parents had to run out for a minnit...

Uncletoad · #8 09-29-2006, 04:55 PM

Excellent. Gotta hear that ****.

**Adrian Cho** · #9 09-29-2006, 05:09 PM

FYI, there's lots of good info about these sessions and the various takes in both the Eric Nisenson and Ashley Kahn books. In addition, there is a book that has sketch score/transcriptions of everything. All very interesting.

SBassman · #10 09-29-2006, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

The intro to SO WHAT, there's (if I recall) about 9 or 10 runs at it with varying amounts of success. Hyland had to get his IPod back at that point, so I don't know how long that went on....

Wow. Really?

So What is probably, pound for pound, my favorite jazz tune.
I'd Love to get my hands on different takes of that tune from Kind Of Blue.

tappingtrance · #11 09-29-2006, 05:17 PM

My understanding is that the masters were low - meaning I guess the machine recorded fast and played back slow - Miles even missed it - if you get the newly mastered Kind of Blue it is in fact brought up to pitch - read 'the making of kind of blue' - good read.

SBassman · #12 09-29-2006, 05:18 PM

There may have been many takes on some of those tunes, but ...

I thought I remember reading that Miles would sometimes not give people material until the day of the recording - and occasionally capture keeper first takes while the players read through a chart for the first time.

True?

Ric Vice · #13 09-30-2006, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Prolly an edit. A buddy of mine had the whole out takes from KOB on his IPod and let me check it out for a minnit. They Frankenstein the head out on FREDDIE FREELOADER and there are a BUNCH of passes at the intro to SO WHAT...

Thanks Ed!
I knew about the alternate takes on the intro, because Paul Demarnis told me about them recently, but I hadn't entertained the notion that Chambers would have tuned down for only one note and had the engineer punch it in. So Miles and the "edit" strike again. It makes sense though, I've never seen a picture of Paul with an extension on his bass, that's a Ron Carter thing.

Ric

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #14 09-30-2006, 11:14 AM

You know Paul Demarnis? He's a great guy - tell him I said hi.

Paul Warburton · #15 10-01-2006, 06:20 AM

I always seem to be whining about how the public percieved Miles as a person...such Bull!
OT again, I know...but this quote of Eris Nisenson out of 'The Making of Kind of Blue: For me, hits the mark:" There have been others who referred to Miles as "the prince of darkness" In reality, he was our angel of light. He illuminated our lives with his beautiful music in the second half of the dark and bloody twentieth century and gave us that rare commodity: hope"
And kudos to Ric for bringing this up...I've been listening to this since day one and never noticed that ****.

Zachmozach · #16 10-01-2006, 12:16 PM

Ya I have some of the outakes that can't be obtained commercially. It's interesting, and kind of gives you a small idea of what sounds worked out and what's completely fresh.

Ric Vice · #17 10-02-2006, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

You know Paul Demarnis? He's a great guy - tell him I said hi.

Chris,
Yeah, we played together last Friday on a concert at the Sheldon. Paul and I have played together of an on for at least 18+ years. He speaks very highly of you as well. I'll see him tonight.

Ric

Ed Fuqua · #18 10-02-2006, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ric Vice

Thanks Ed!
I knew about the alternate takes on the intro, because Paul Demarnis told me about them recently, but I hadn't entertained the notion that Chambers would have tuned down for only one note and had the engineer punch it in. So Miles and the "edit" strike again. It makes sense though, I've never seen a picture of Paul with an extension on his bass, that's a Ron Carter thing.

Ric

Not one note, the whole rubatoish intro with Bill Evans.

Ric Vice · #19 10-02-2006, 11:25 AM

And kudos to Ric for bringing this up...I've been listening to this since day one and never noticed that ****.[/quote]

Actually Paul, I can't take credit for discovering it by ear. Hal Leonard has published a complete set of transcriptions of the intros and solos for all the tunes on the Kind of Blue album. It's fantastic and incudes that famous intro to So What. We were using it for the "City of Gabriels"* concert here at the Sheldon Auditorium. I discovered the E flat when I was signt reading the intro at our first rehersal. Unfortunately, there isn't any credit given to the transcriber in the scores. At least I couldn't find one in the verso to the work.

City of Gabriels is a new book about Jazz in St. Louis, that includes six versions of the Jimmy Blanton meets Duke Ellington story. Including one by Wendell Marshall, Jimmy's Cousin who played on Duke's Piano Reflections Album.

Silas Martinez · #20 11-04-2007, 04:57 PM

I know this thread is old, but wanted to note that there is a good book out covering the recording of 'Kind of Blue'. Has transcriptions of both sessions. Mentions some details regarding the splicing of the tapes, and it is interesting to read about how the sessions were actually ran.

They 'false started' many times, but the recordings are generally a 'one take' kind of deal - the first take they played all the way through. There may have been spliced in intros, but that was generally the extent of it.

Here it is on Amazon.
http://www.amazon.com/Kind-Blue-Ashl...4216330&sr=1-2

I actually just checked it out from my local library - the hardbound has a different cover - but it has a lot of interesting backstory, and is sort of a history of the bands Miles was a part of leading up to recording Kind of Blue.

It doesn't contain the actual charts, but I still am finding it a very interesting read. Really put the album in perspective for me.