Spiro Growl Straight to Board Soundclip

iiipopes · #1 10-09-2011, 02:47 PM

OK, finally, I have a clip of my dance/jazz band playing an arrangement of "Moondance." This is my CCB that I've done the complete setup from scratch on it, including false nut to shorten the scale about an inch for my too short curved pinky to make 1/2 position octaves playable, planing the fingerboard, slightly narrowing the neck from almost two inches at the nut to a more manageable 1 3/4 with a good thick rounded profile, trimming the bridge on my band saw for proper height and contour, then sanding to proper gradation and thickness at the string notches, installing the Full Circle, redoing the tailpiece & tail cable, setting the soundpost, etc., finishing up with a set of older used Spiro S42 Weichs I assembled from different sources. The recording is digital, with the bass coming off the XLR low-Z out from a new Carvin MB12 straight to board, with the entire signal chain being: CCB-Spiros-Full Circle (upside down)-fDeck-MB12 XLR out-digital board.

The QCDB is a hobby band that plays dances, receptions, party gigs, etc. But I still think we have a lot to show for ourselves, from the number of steady annual gigs we get.

Now, most of the sound clips on the band website are of either my predecessor, or of live recordings that may not have turned out the best, but I think this is representative of what we're doing now, with full Spiro growl:

http://www.queencitydanceband.com/mp3/Moondance.mp3

Ed Fuqua · #2 10-10-2011, 09:32 AM

Kinda sounds like a P bass.

**Pacman** · #3 10-10-2011, 09:39 AM

pretty avant garde arrangement.

iiipopes · #4 10-10-2011, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Kinda sounds like a P bass.

Thanks. Yeah, I resemble that remark. Even with totally "immersing" myself with "proper" technique, it's hard to shake 35+ years of slab.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pacman

pretty avant garde arrangement.

Indeed. There are places where there's more ink in the accidentals than in the notes!

Thanks for taking a listen.

Ed Fuqua · #5 10-10-2011, 10:04 AM

So you spent an intermminable amount of work and time to get a double bass to sound like a bass guitar. Why don't you just play bass guitar?

Paul Warburton · #6 10-10-2011, 10:13 AM

How's the chick singer look?
Great, I hope, because she sounds like she's been heavily influenced by Mrs. Miller.

iiipopes · #7 10-10-2011, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

So you spent an intermminable amount of work and time to get a double bass to sound like a bass guitar. Why don't you just play bass guitar?

Um, maybe I said it backwards. In case I wasn't clear, in spite of my best efforts at getting a DB to sound like DB, my DB tone does still have some elements of EB tone.

Part of that is having learned to play as a teenager trying to emulate records, not having a clue about such concepts such as eq, compression, etc., just the knobs on my bass guitar and a cheap amp. The good thing is that I learned to play with decent technique, tone and sustain (You can hear my EB tone direct to board on the Welk "Precious Memories" special; I think someone has posted parts of it to YouTube); the bad thing is that it does get edgy occasionally, and as we all do, I will forever be working on refining everything: tone, intonation, tuning, etc. But I'll keep working on that. It is good to have an ongoing challenge musically. What's the Casals' quote at 94 years old -- I'm seeing some improvement....

iiipopes · #8 10-10-2011, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Warburton

How's the chick singer look?
Great, I hope, because she sounds like she's been heavily influenced by Mrs. Miller.

Our vocalist is a retired music teacher, and she is the leading exponent of the state music teacher's association in lobbying to keep jazz band funding in public schools, with great success, in spite of an overall climate of a lot of small schools shutting down their band programs. I had the privilege of all those decades ago to work with her briefly when she first got her teaching credentials, and she humbly spent her career in a small town south of where I lived -- taking her cause to greater heights through association and through her students. When she's not singing, she's holding down the 3rd sax part of our small-band arrangements, whether alto, tenor or bari.

TroyK · #9 10-10-2011, 11:52 AM

Thanks for sharing this with us.

iiipopes · #10 10-10-2011, 11:53 AM

You're welcome!

MR PC · #11 10-11-2011, 11:05 AM

Not a bad sound.....it doesn't sound like P-Bass at all, it sounds like what it is.....Spiro direct. I think for all the production trouble it would be nice to have a mic track to work with. Nice job.

iiipopes · #12 10-11-2011, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR PC

Not a bad sound.....it doesn't sound like P-Bass at all, it sounds like what it is.....Spiro direct. I think for all the production trouble it would be nice to have a mic track to work with. Nice job.

Thanks. I agree. A mic track would have given some depth and warmth, but with the small recording space available and a low ceiling, ensemble recording, no overdubs, etc., a mic track in this instance would have gotten too much crosstalk, since there was no room for isolation baffles.

Of course, the purpose of this particular recording is marketing off the band website, so a little bit of "in your face" on the tone may actually be a good thing to catch a prospective booking.

MR PC · #13 10-11-2011, 01:51 PM

Fretless P-bass would be just as serviceable then, imo. A little mic bleed often helps a mix, and can help the band to sound fuller and groove more overall. Even if the mic is simply stuffed under the tailpiece, it's going to sound and feel more like an bass violin. More like all over your body than "in your face".

**Pacman** · #14 10-11-2011, 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiipopes

Thanks. Yeah, I resemble that remark. Even with totally "immersing" myself with "proper" technique, it's hard to shake 35+ years of slab.
Indeed. There are places where there's more ink in the accidentals than in the notes!

Thanks for taking a listen.

I was actually kidding. The arrangement is kind of blah, no surprises (because it's the "Louie Louie" of jazz). But the 3 simultaneous different time feels, and let's say..."interesting" note choices and intonation make it come off pretty out there.

I've got some stuff I recorded with a chinese bass, and it sounds considerably better than that....

iiipopes · #15 10-11-2011, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR PC

Fretless P-bass would be just as serviceable then, imo.

I don't mean to take this one line out of context, but I respectfully disagree, from my perspective of almost four decades of providing foundation to various ensembles, whether with voice, concert tuba, sousaphone, EB in all genres, DB, or even pipe organ and left hand of piano. This is a rather "out there" arrangement, and needed the drive to keep the band going. So I pushed a little.

But on the rest of our repertoire, especially all of the swing and standards charts, I wish you could hear how much better the band swings and phrases together at a gig with the DB rather than with EB when I started playing with them about three years ago. This one soundclip doesn't necessarily show it, but overall DB has provided such a better foundation to the band that our bookings are actually up, and scheduled one to two years out, in spite of the economy.

No, it's not me. Anybody playing DB instead of EB would have been able to do it and change the fundamental character of the band. This is nothing new. Depending on the song and the arrangement, Richard Maloof used DB, EB, or tuba with Welk as the particular song needed. Guy Lombardo used tuba to get his signature sound as a more chordal concept to bass rather than rhythmic. And so on. And I haven't even talked about the various schools of DB as set forth in the The Jazz Bass Book, which should be required reading of everyone who aspires to jazz DB.

From my perspective, it's all about the bloom of DB to enhance the rhythm section as opposed to the inherent drive, sustain and compression of an EB driving the rhythm section. That's the main reason Lionel Hampton pioneered EB in his big band setting: in his day, he was pushing the limits of his band and widening the spectrum of what a big band can do. I remember as a teenager watching Kenton's bass player change from DB to EB for "MacArthur Park," and back. Dave Brubeck's son is playing a fretless Rickenbacker. MF used EB. And so on. Please let me know if this is an incorrect philosophical approach.

Now, all these decades later, all of us mere mortals in the weekend trenches are playing dances where the audience still wants to hear it like the "record," whether that be a 78, 45, 33 1/3, 8-track, cassette, CD, or MP3. So last gig I took three of my four bass instruments: DB, P-style with fanned frets & flats, and Rick 4002 (not 3 or 1, 4002) with rounds, all to cover the various genres properly for the full 3-hour gig; leaving only my Miraphone tuba at home because we didn't play any marches or show tunes for this particular gig.

Sorry about the rant. I appreciate all the constructive criticism so I know what to work on to keep improving my DB playing. That's why we're all here and keeping an instrument with a @500 year old design alive: so the world doesn't simply fall back on P-bass as a default.

Paul Warburton · #16 10-11-2011, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iiipopes;11[B

603717] That's the main reason Lionel Hampton pioneered EB in his big band setting: in his day, he was pushing the limits of his band and widening the spectrum of what a [/b]big band can do.

No, not true. He and most big band leaders made the change of one reason..... Economics. Hassles of shipping DB's. BG's could be hung in the wardrobe section of flights for no extra charge. Buddy Rich even admitted this, among others. Absolutely nothing to do with the preference of the instruments.
IMO, you're making stuff up to make a point that doesn't even exist.
Nothing personal.
EDIT: And your clip: Many of us older jazz bassists are embarrased about what engineers did to our sound in the 70's and even early 80's by going direct to the board from the PU. Our sound is our signature, no? IMO, you need to do some research
.

MR PC · #17 10-11-2011, 07:04 PM

If you had used a P-Bass, it would have been much easier to hear how many of the changes you rushed through and otherwise executed poorly in the turnarounds.....

dlargent · #18 10-11-2011, 07:36 PM

Sounds totally awesome! I like the way the bass tone is so audible.

dlargent · #19 10-11-2011, 07:38 PM

Hey man -- that's an awful thing to say. Sometimes with arrangements like this, a band needs a bass player to push the beat a little.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MR PC

If you had used a P-Bass, it would have been much easier to hear how many of the changes you rushed through and otherwise executed poorly in the turnarounds.....

**Pacman** · #20 10-11-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dlargent

Hey man -- that's an awful thing to say. Sometimes with arrangements like this, a band needs a bass player to push the beat a little.

Pushing the beat a little and playing out of time are two different things.

While I'm a bit embarrassed posting this with Paul and Ed in the thread, this is "pushing a little" to keep the ensemble grooving. It's also after a year and a half playing upright. AND it's a Chinese bass.

http://soundcloud.com/jonpackard/01-sing-sang-sung