Altered chords

[Bass Catcher]

Hello -

I'm delving into more advanced harmony lately: i.e. b9 chords, #9 chords, #5 chords, b5 chords, alt. chords, etc. etc. I've been researching a lot and it seems that everyone has a different answer for what scales to play over these chords. I've been told to play an altered scale on any #9, #5 chords. And to play a diminished scale over b9, b5 chords. I was also recently told that you should always use some melodic minor scale over any of these altered chords. What scales do you guys use on these chords? Thanks!

Matt

[Scott McC]

When it comes to dominant chords with funny extentions, such as flat9s, altereds etc, things can be pretty open to interpretation. You can do anything if it sounds good, thats the rule. I think it boils down to having a grasp of as many scales as you can and knowing what the chords sound like. If I were to answer your question more directly, I would say....shed the crap out of the diminished scales and the alt scale, they are you friends.

[thumpybones]

One thing to keep in mind: If the 9th is altered, then both 9's are altered. In other words, b9 #9 belong with one chord, natural 9, another. That said, a dim scale (1/2 step whole step: C, C#, D#, E, F#, G, A, Bb, C) would work well on a C7b9. There are numerous additions, but hopefully this will give you a starting point.

[tzadik]

You're going to hate me, because this is incredibly difficult, but I truly believe it's one of the best ways to master the stuff you're interested in.

Play, say, five or six scales. Whole tone, harm min, dim, whatever you like.

Now, organize them according to how they sound to YOU. Saddest to happiest, brightest to darkest, most tense to most relaxed - however.

Because, when you'r eimprovising in teh moment, the listener doesn't care what the scale is called. They care about how it feels. So when you whip out a whole tone scale because you can and you know it works, that means nothing. When you whip out a whole tone scale to create and eerie, shifting undertone of doom, then THAT is going to sound like something.

Dig?

This also works well with a buddy or two. Shut your eyes and play scales to each other. Guess what they're called and pick a way to organize 'em and then compare lists or practice soloing with certain moods in mind, etc.

[Lovebown]

Originally Posted by Bass Catcher

Hello -

I'm delving into more advanced harmony lately: i.e. b9 chords, #9 chords, #5 chords, b5 chords, alt. chords, etc. etc. I've been researching a lot and it seems that everyone has a different answer for what scales to play over these chords. I've been told to play an altered scale on any #9, #5 chords. And to play a diminished scale over b9, b5 chords. I was also recently told that you should always use some melodic minor scale over any of these altered chords. What scales do you guys use on these chords? Thanks!

Matt

Hello, It's actually difficult to say which scale to use with which chord unless it's seen in the context of a song, with a function in the harmony. A V7 #5 could imply either altered(superlocrian) or Whole-tone for instance. V7b9 generally implies dim. scale but there are good possibilities for playing altered over that as well.

See the scales as possible tone material over specific harmony not as a guideline of what you have to play. If you want to delve into this more specifically I suggest you learn some jazz theory which involves analyzing tunes and the chords and their function, as well as the scales that go with these chord functions...

[Chris Fitzgerald]

If you'll do and advanced search for the word "altered" in the theory forum, you'll find quite a few threads on the subject. Here's one that applies to this thread.

[Scott McC]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

If you'll do and advanced search for the word "altered" in the theory forum, you'll find quite a few threads on the subject. Here's one that applies to this thread.

thorough, very thorough. I couldnt agree more with the "this scale = this chord" syndrome, too true. Thanks for the link Chris.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Yup - read what Chris has said in that link - but for me the thing is always - what is the function of the chord - that's the question you have to ask!