Counter Point basics

[walters]

What is Counter Point? its made up of intervals
1:1,2:1,3:1,4:1,5:1
just sounds like intervals to me

How do i write a Canon?
It seems like i Shift or nudge the melody line
and start the second melody one note from
the starting note these creates Delays?

How do i write a imitation?
i just start a 5th down from the starting note?

[walters]

What are some basic Counterpoint concepts ?
example i play a C major scale C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C,
counterpointer: C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C,D
canon: C,D,E,F,G,A,B,C

See how's its "Delay" by a interval note

[walters]

If my melody line is C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C how would i write a "Canon" for this melody line?

If my melody line is C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C how would i write a "imitation" for this melody line?

[godoze]

saying it ver ybasically counterpoint is nothing more than two(or more) melodies that share harmonic relationships moving against each other.

Species counterpoint is where you would want to begin to learn counterpoint.

[walters]

So how do you write a countpoint line from a basic melody ?
What are the Basics of countpointing methods?

[godoze]

are you familiar with voice leading ? when two chords are put next to each other in a musical setting there are conventions as to where and how each note moves to the next one; it is by no means haphazard.

[walters]

voice leading would be the resolving stepwise,skip,lead
to the notes

counter point is based around Intervals mostly

voice leading in 4 part chordal writing yes they are seperate
the bass,tenor,alto,soprano voices and try to make the
have voice leading and movement

what about just basic counterpoint like 1:1,2:1,3:1,4:1
is based about intervals

I'm tring to write a Canon how do i start with a basic c major
scale melody line?

[godoze]

ok so you are familiar the basic conventions. remember to avoid the P5 and the octave. As for writing a counterpoint, figure out the harmonic movement of your melody, plot that, and then compose a counter melody accordingly.

btw, while it seems the easiest 1:1 species counterpoint is the hardest...

[walters]

Thanks DZ for the information

How do i write a counter melody for a canon function?

A really Basic Melody line

C-D-E-F-G-A-B-C
C-D-E-F-G-A-B Counter Melody?

Is this the way to do a canon?

How would you write a canon counter melody what are the basics to do this?

[walters]

A Canon Has three "counter melodys" how do you make these counter melody's ?

[walters]

All the voices of a canon have the same melody, beginning at different times.
In counterpoint, a melody that is repeated exactly by a different voice, entering a short interval after the original voice.

[Paul Warburton]

You guys should take this act on the road....

[godoze]

A canon does not have to be 3 part, it does have to be at least 2.

thank you...try the salmon...I'll be here thru Sunday.

[Peck_Time]

...Try the salmon...

Is there something wrong with the veal?

-Daniel Y

[stagger lee]

have i got this right: a counterpoint melody is a copy of the original melody but starting from a different note? does the counterpoint melody move in the same intervals as the original or would it be like playing C major in diatonic thirds for example?

i'm pretty stable with canons, we've been doing a lot of work on them at school, just for verification a canon is an imitation of the melody but starting while the original melody is still playing?

[godoze]

no, a counterpoint is an independent melody that fits harmonically like a puzzle piece with other melodies.

Walters, if you want to learn counterpoint pm me and we can set up some email lessons..gratis of course...

[dougjwray]

Okay, okay, step aside!
Here's the definition of "canon", from The New Harvard Dictionary of Music (Cambridge, Mass. : The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press, 1986) (p. 128):
"Imitation of a complete subject by one or more voices at fixed intervals of pitch and time. If each successive following voice follows the leading voice in every detail, the canon is strict; if, however, [it] modifies [the leading voice] by minor changes in accidentals, the canon is free... Canons may be self-contained entities or may ooccur within larger pieces (canonic imitation). They may also be combined with independent lines (mixed or accompanied canons) or even with other canons (group or compound canons)."
"Row, Row, Row Your Boat" and "Frere Jacques" are examples of canons (specifically, "perpetual canons at the unison").
J.S. Bach, of course, was the all-time canon master. Back in his day, composers used to amuse themselves by doing things like writing complex canons that would sound the same when read upside down or rightside up, etc., etc.
Hope this helps.

[godoze]

HDM ain't gonna teach you counterpoint, neither is a book. IT requires pencils, paper, and LOTS of erasers....

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by DZ

HDM ain't gonna teach you counterpoint, neither is a book. IT requires pencils, paper, and LOTS of erasers....

True, true...

[dougjwray]

Here's a "quick and dirty" lesson in counterpoint, dug out from my memories of elementary counterpoint in music school, 30 [choke] years ago.
This is basic counterpoint, not canonic writing.

1) Start with a "cantus firmus", a melody of maybe 8 to 10 notes. C up to C (the original poster's example) isn't exactly very melodic, but I guess it could work.
2) Write a line against it, following these rules:
Absolutely no parallel 5ths or octaves. Parallel 4ths are in bad taste.
No direct 5ths or octaves (in other words, the secondary line makes a big jump and lands on a note which is a 5th or an octave from the cantus).
2nds, 4ths and 7ths are okay in passing... no more than one note.
No leaps bigger than a major 6th.
Parallel 3rds and 6ths are very nice, but probably not for more than two successive notes.
Strive for contrary motion (the cantus goes up, the secondary line goes down, and vice versa).
Finally, try to make the secondary line "melodic" in its own right.
I'm certainly open to correction and elaboration if anyone else would like to jump in.