Extended Chords

paintballjunkie · #1 12-08-2005, 07:45 PM

I have a question, and i can't seem to find the answer. Anyway, what intervals do you add to get the 9th, 11th, or 13th of a chord? I don't get it, if the highest interval is a major seventh before you reach the octave, then why are they called 9th, 11th, and 13th?

Jazz Ad · #2 12-08-2005, 07:54 PM

Because they're above the octave. It's that simple

So if you bring a 2nd an octave up, you get 2nd+7 = 9th.

paintballjunkie · #3 12-08-2005, 08:12 PM

ok, so for a major 9th chord you add the major second an octave up, for add 11 you add the fourth an octave up,
and a major 13th chord you add the major sixth an octave up?

Jazz Ad · #4 12-08-2005, 08:19 PM

Yes.
You will notice that they don't quite sound the same, especially in arpeggios. Using a 9th rather than a 2nd brings a lot of room into a chord.

paintballjunkie · #5 12-08-2005, 08:28 PM

ah, i think i get it now. thanks!

oliebrice · #6 12-09-2005, 01:20 AM

some people get very heated about wheter the same chord should be called sharp 4 or sharp 11. I've been told by different workshop teachers than each is the only possible accurate description!

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #7 12-09-2005, 07:24 AM

It's #4, dammit! #4, I say!!

Tbeers · #8 12-09-2005, 07:29 AM

I dunno.. I always favored #11.

Turock · #9 12-09-2005, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

It's #4, dammit! #4, I say!!

That's only in an E-gads or a D-molished.

**Chris Fitzgerald** · #10 12-09-2005, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TURDLOCK

That's only in an E-gads or a D-molished.

Don't forget B-SQUARE or C-SECTION.

Seriously, I think the differences in notation reflect whether the chord symbol is being used to reflect a harmonic or melodic emphasis. To denote harmonic emphasis, the extension way of writing it makes more sense, as those notes do tend to sound better when placed above the guide tones. For melody, it makes more sense to me to use the version that's all within the octave, which makes it easier to see how the color tones in question fit into a melodic line. I teach both, but use the second type more often (except in the case of 9th alterations, which are always notated as 9th alterations).

Turock · #11 12-09-2005, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Don't forget B-SQUARE or C-SECTION.

I'm pretty sure the C-section has a #7 in it.

oliebrice · #12 12-09-2005, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

Seriously, I think the differences in notation reflect whether the chord symbol is being used to reflect a harmonic or melodic emphasis...

that makes sense, I'd never thought of it that way...

TroyK · #13 12-09-2005, 11:32 AM

Get thee to a piano. It will all become clear....er

Don Higdon · #14 12-10-2005, 06:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turock

I'm pretty sure the C-section has a #7 in it.

My wife had two C-sections. One girl, one boy.

ryco · #15 12-12-2005, 08:15 PM

I was under the impression if a chord is called extended, it has to contain a seventh.

HaVIC5 · #16 12-12-2005, 10:02 PM

The real reason why they are called 9th's 11th's and 13th's isn't because they're voiced higher. They can be voiced below the octave and still be called 9th's 11th's and 13th's. The reason why they aren't called 2nd's and whatever is because of the principles of building chords. Chords are built by stacking 3rds. You start with the 1, stack a third on that and its 1 3. Stack another 3rd and you have a major triad. Stack another 3rd and you have 1 3 5 7 - some kind of seventh chord. You keep on stacking the thirds and you get the extensions.

Aaron Saunders · #17 12-12-2005, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaVIC5

The real reason why they are called 9th's 11th's and 13th's isn't because they're voiced higher. They can be voiced below the octave and still be called 9th's 11th's and 13th's. The reason why they aren't called 2nd's and whatever is because of the principles of building chords. Chords are built by stacking 3rds. You start with the 1, stack a third on that and its 1 3. Stack another 3rd and you have a major triad. Stack another 3rd and you have 1 3 5 7 - some kind of seventh chord. You keep on stacking the thirds and you get the extensions.

While theoretically this does match up, IME 9/11/13 chords are put their specifically to have more colour on the top -- composer's intent and such. If you give a pianist a sheet with a sus2 chord in one place and a 9 chord in another, you're going to get a vastly different sound, because that piano player is (like any reasoning person) going to know the clear difference and voice them appropriately.

jallenbass · #18 12-12-2005, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron Saunders

While theoretically this does match up, IME 9/11/13 chords are put their specifically to have more colour on the top -- composer's intent and such. If you give a pianist a sheet with a sus2 chord in one place and a 9 chord in another, you're going to get a vastly different sound, because that piano player is (like any reasoning person) going to know the clear difference and voice them appropriately.

Your two examples will sound different not because of voicing but because those are two different chords. In a Csus2 the 3rd is replaced by the 2nd degree making it neither major or minor. A C9 is major in quality.

Aaron Saunders · #19 12-13-2005, 12:33 AM

...touché!