Identifying the key of a chart, i.e., major or minor

[Jack Clark]

There have been quite a few threads dealing with the differences in sounds and note choices when playing or listening to major keys and their relative minors, but my question is a whole lot more fundamental—and, I suspect, easier to answer.

Just looking at the sheet music itself: What is the most accurate way to determine whether a chart is written in a major or its relative minor? With almost no formal music training, I've been in the habit of looking at the final note of the tune—not including any extra endings, I mean the final note of the melody itself, which is generally the tonic. Rule of thumb, anyway.

There are some tunes that seem to try to trick you, though. For example, Lullaby of Birdland in Eb begins with a Cmin7 chord, Cmin being the relative minor of Eb Major. (Although the note the tune begins on would be a G.) So a person might see the three flats in the key signature and that first chord and think "Key of C minor." But since the melody ends with an Eb note, it fits with the rule of thumb, above, as being in Eb.

However, I'm not sure that that simple rule is always going to be accurate. I'm guessing that a more accurate method might involve key centers . . . or accidentals on the 7ths . . . or some such.

So, for you guys with formal music educations, what's the more-or-less "official" way to determine by just examining a chart whether it is written in the major or its relative minor?

[Jazz Ad]

If there is a formal answer to this I'd like to know it.
I've always been told it depended on the mood of the song and how often the relative minor came back as opposed to the major chord.
It works but it's a bit vague.

[Buxtehude]

The last chord in the chart will probably help. That's the simplest answer.

[longfinger]

scan the music and look for proper cadences (pre-dom - > dom -> tonic).

[Ed Fuqua]

Like longfinger says, look at where stuff is pointing. If I called this on the stand I don't even know if I would say Eb, if someone asked me what key I'd just say "3 flats" and if they didn't know the tune I'd add "starts on Cmin".

But don't overthink.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

Originally Posted by

Like longfinger says, look at where stuff is pointing. If I called this on the stand I don't even know if I would say Eb, if someone asked me what key I'd just say "3 flats" and if they didn't know the tune I'd add "starts on Cmin".

But don't overthink.

This.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Like longfinger says, look at where stuff is pointing. If I called this on the stand I don't even know if I would say Eb, if someone asked me what key I'd just say "3 flats" and if they didn't know the tune I'd add "starts on Cmin".

But don't overthink.

Lol. You nailed me right on that count, Ed. Overthinking is one of my biggest problem areas. I have to say that it's usually fun, though, especially when I know I can come to TB for the right answers. Thanks, guys.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by Chris Fitzgerald

This.

Ah, Chris, that doesn't look like Ed at all. Ed doesn't have red hair.

BTW, Ed, that suit you're wearing in the photos in your book? Great-looking suit.

[Beginner Bass]

What I look for is:

1. Final chord (Minus turnarounds)
2. Final note of the melody (Minus any pickup note)
3. Does it sound major or minor?

Some pieces though will tend to visit the relative major and minor keys. The big question is one of where they resolve. But of course, you should pay attention to the key shifts, as in jazz they are likely to be abundant.

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by Beginner Bass

Does it sound major or minor?

But the question was "Identifying the key of a chart" - I.E. you are given a chart and haven't heard it - so you don't know how it sounds!

[ericw]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

But the question was "Identifying the key of a chart" - I.E. you are given a chart and haven't heard it - so you don't know how it sounds!

You do if you've been working on your sight-singing/ear-training.

[bejoyous]

Since you are playing the bass part, you will almost always be playing the root of the home key chord for the last note. Look there first.

If it is a key signature with sharps, in a major key, the last sharp is the 7th degree of the scale so go up one semitone to find the home tone. (Ex - F#, C#, G# - go up one semitone - you are in A Major.) In minor, go down one tone. (In the above example - F# minor.)

If it is a key signature with flats, in a major key, the last flat is the 4th degree of the scale OR the second last flat is the home tone (Ex. Bb, Eb, Ab - go down a fourth from Ab - you are in Eb Major.) In minor keys, go up a major 3rd or find the relative minor from the major. (In the above ex. - C minor.)

[HenryD]

To be honest, the first and last chords of a chart don't tell you anything sometimes. In "Just Friends", for example, the first chord is really the IV chord and the last bar is just a ii-V back to the IV.

If you really want to determine the key of something, it just takes some harmonic analysis like others have said above, although I find this process superfluous at times.

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by HenryD

. . . although I find this process superfluous at times.

Yeah, overthinking, I think Ed was saying this, too. He would just call out the accidentals of the key and the chord it starts on, and not bother with identifying the key as major or minor.

[suraci]

Originally Posted by Jack Clark

Yeah, overthinking, I think Ed was saying this, too. He would just call out the accidentals of the key and the chord it starts on, and not bother with identifying the key as major or minor.

I live in San Diego and have played with a guitarist who may live near you Dan Papaila.
I like Chesterton 2 thumbs up

Why do you ask the question? Do you mean a bandleader calls a key to a song, kind of thing?

The vast majority of songs have the first and last chord as the same- and thus the key.

The last NOTE of the MELODY is usually a root of a chord, which usually corresponds to the key as well
Last chord C maj last note is often C
Sometimes it can end on a fifth.
Relative major and minor is tricky.
Look for "two five one" in relative major and minor. That is a big help.
There is no quick fix official way. Just take a little time, studying the melody the final note, starting note and scale it is outlining , and the chord progression esp I 4 5 and 2 5 1 .

[Mayers]

When I was studying classical music in college, the analyst teacher said that first you look at the accidental like 3 flats etc and after that you have to have a quick look at the music written to see if you have an accidental on the 7th of the relative minor and after that the last "mesure" to know on what it end.

In jazz I don't think it is useful since many jazz song usualy shift tonality quite often.

I never quite understood the ... "well it is in Cminor and it start on the G" and I'm supose to know what will happen ??? unless it is a rock song where the change are almost always the same ... it just confuse me.

[suraci]

Do you play a little piano?? Helps a lot . Yes an harmonic minor scale has a maj seventh in the scale to give the five chord a major sound

This is too hard for me to explain in soundbytes
V chords often usually act as major chords
So in C major G maj is the V chord it was also called Dominant
And one was Tonic
It was the I tonic as a major and V Dominant also as a major
Eg in C maj. C is major is tonic G is dominant
In minor. We still keep the dominant chord as major
And that is one of the reasons ef in C minor. We have C D Eb F G Ab B C harmonic minor
Or the other confusing minor scale. Melodic minor which ascends
Thus C D Eb F G A B C. But descend s like old fashioned minor
C Bb Ab G F Eb D C !!!!!

You may need a teacher methinks

[suraci]

I though of a confusing but nonetheless great book to teach minor
I would just go to his chapter on Minor mode
Arnold Schoenbergs theory of harmony
A philosophical music book. But I much prefer it to any other
His minor mode stuff is cool. Try it

[Jack Clark]

Originally Posted by suraci

I live in San Diego and have played with a guitarist who may live near you Dan Papaila.

Yes, I've seen and heard Dan several times at Café Aroma in Idyllwild, I enjoy his playing very much.

I think my question had not so much to do with music theory, but rather just chart notation. When I look at a chart and see one flat, I immediately want to say it's in F Major, but it might be D minor. I don't want to hand it to someone and say it's in F when it's really in D minor. As I said, I have generally been looking at the final melody note of the tune, which will probably be either an F or a D, and that will generally tell me. But I think not always. That's why I was looking for more info as to what to look for—chord movement, etc.—within the piece itself. As usual, I got a lot of good info from you guys. Ed's suggestion of just saying "one flat" here sounds like the pro way, I'm thinking.

[suraci]

I understood the issue right off because it is an ongoing issue for a musician " what key is this ?"
So my question is. I need more context, more detail
If you had 20 minutes to analyze the key, that would be no problem, I assume

Between the chords. The melody. The key most of the time falls into your lap

So I am asking about the context of your question
Are you in need of an answer in 10 seconds ? Or?