Playing Jazz in odd meters ?

[Kindofblue]

Hey everyone, I was just wondering how a bass player approachs a bass line outside of 3/4,4/4 and playing a functional line in say 6/8? or another odd meter like 7/4 or 5/4 etc. Generally im talking about a walking line outside of common time. Like if someone was to call a standard like "all the things you are" and play it in 7/8.

Thanks,

[neal davis]

The most common thing is for people to break the bar up into groups of 2's and 3's. ex. 7/4 bar could be a bar of 4 and a bar of 3, 5/4 could be a bar of 2 then a bar of 3 etc, etc. That is very common but it gets more interesting when you are actually playing odd times with a whole bar of 7/4, 5/4, 13/8 etc and feeling and just playing with the time. Odd time signatures are not really that odd, they just seem to be to us North Americans who are used to hearing 4/4 or 3/4 most of the time go to different countries and 7/4, 5/4, 17/8 seem quite normal. Don't try and think of the signatures as odd think of them as a new challange to you.

Check out people like Dave Holland, Urs Blochlinger, Vj Iyer, Brad Meldau, Object Trouvais, they will help you get some ideas of how to do intersting things in odd times

[brivello]

Avishai Cohen and Esperanza Spalding would be two more people to check out.

[nickmo007]

When playing a tune like "all the things" in 7, a good technique is to begin with a clave pattern of quarter note, quarter note, dotted eighth, dotted eighth.

You can play the aforementioned pattern as your bass line with the first two quarters being F-7 followed by the dotted eighths being Bb-7 etc. (the first 2 chord changes in the tune) This will sound fine and would be a good place to start. From there, I keep on feeling the clave in my head as I explore other rhythmic ideas throuout the course of improvisation. I keep feeling that clave as I solo as well.

Of course just playing in these meters with other musicians is the key.

[Alexi David]

Originally Posted by Kindofblue

Hey everyone, I was just wondering how a bass player approachs a bass line outside of 3/4,4/4 and playing a functional line in say 6/8? or another odd meter like 7/4 or 5/4 etc. Generally im talking about a walking line outside of common time. Like if someone was to call a standard like "all the things you are" and play it in 7/8.

Thanks,

The same way you would play in 4 - It's the groove that we lock into - how many "beats" are present is irrelevant

For great examples, listen to 60s era Max Roach albums. Listen to how Max drums over 5, 7, etc.

[Paul Warburton]

Originally Posted by nickmo007

When playing a tune like "all the things" in 7, a good technique is to begin with a clave pattern of quarter note, quarter note, dotted eighth, dotted eighth.
You can play the aforementioned pattern as your bass line with the first two quarters being F-7 followed by the dotted eighths being Bb-7 etc. (the first 2 chord changes in the tune) This will sound fine and would be a good place to start. From there, I keep on feeling the clave in my head as I explore other rhythmic ideas throuout the course of improvisation. I keep feeling that clave as I solo as well.
Of course just playing in these meters with other musicians is the key.

You said it. Especially chick singers who seem to struggle with the lyrics.

[fingers]

I think what is hard is you have to see how the other musicians are feeling it. You can't decided by yourself how a certain time signature is supposed to feel. Even 3, 4, or 6.

As far as walking, once you see how people are phrasing it you get and idea of what the strong beats are. Hit notes of consequence on those beats and make a 'melody' with the others.

Dave Holland talks about how he and John McLaughlin used to jam as youngsters in England. I think playing with other people, regardless of meter, is the most important part.

[chop_1992]

You can check out Larry Grenadier with Brad Mehldau here playing All the Things in 7:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...4192323&sr=8-1

They play it as a measure of 4/4, measure of 3/4

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by nickmo007

When playing a tune like "all the things" in 7, a good technique is to begin with a clave pattern of quarter note, quarter note, dotted eighth, dotted eighth.

I'd generally lengthen rather than shorten, two half notes followed by two dotted quarters...

[nickmo007]

Yes, i was debating how to describe it, still sounds the same.

[Ed Fuqua]

Not if quarter note=300 to begin with

[Alexi David]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

Not if quarter note=300 to begin with

HAHHA Hi Ed!

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Alexi David

HAHHA Hi Ed!

LEXI - hey man. I'm getting ready to bunker down for the winter. Lemme know if yer playing (or walking around the LES too early Sunday morning), and lets' get a beer fore the sun dissapears...

[Kindofblue]

My other question is if in 4/4 im listneing to the drums hi hat on 2+4 what do I listen to as "guides" to lock in,in another time signature?

[nickmo007]

Originally Posted by Kindofblue

My other question is if in 4/4 im listneing to the drums hi hat on 2+4 what do I listen to as "guides" to lock in,in another time signature?

You cannot always rely on the drummers hi hat when playing jazz. Often they will abandon the pattern and start playing over the bar line and you the bassist must know where the "ONE" is. That being said, when playing in odd meters, a good way to start is to develop a repetitive rhythmic pattern that fits into that particular meter. Earlier in the thread, I used the example of a clave pattern as the foundation for a bass line in 7.

Best of luck, and also check out recordings of guys playing in odd meters. Dave Holland's solo stuff comes to mind. Brad Mehldau plays some standards in other meters too. Of course you should learn "take five". People always request it at restaurant style gigs.

[Marcus Johnson]

Originally Posted by nickmo007

Of course you should learn "take five". People always request it at restaurant style gigs.

My friends, if I am elected president, I will make that a felony offense.

[StyleOverShow]

Originally Posted by fingers

As far as walking, once you see how people are phrasing it you get and idea of what the strong beats are. Hit notes of consequence on those beats and make a 'melody' with the others.

I find this to be very useful, especially when playing with new players in a jazz setting, which is much more about listening and responding IMO. I play a simple line, quarters and dotted eights and then find where the backside beat is, or where the holes are, whatever and begin to work those into the bass lines.

For me, going with the flow is better than counting out the beats of the measures. If I think about it, "Take Five" becomes a chore.

[EADG mx]

Why has no one mentioned Dave Brubeck yet?