REALLY Learning a tune

[BoulderBrow]

This is a great thread thankyou for taking the time to post it. The link Damon posted is extremely useful too. Esp. for background knowledge and a brief harmonic analysis of the tunes.

Cheers!

[christ andronis]

Hey Chris...might this be a sticky??? Great explanation Ed.

[Chris Fitzgerald]

I just now put it in the theory FAQ/Links thread.

[Aaron Saunders]

Ed, the day after I read this article I had my improv class with Kirk MacDonald and he taught the exact same thing -- exactly. You said this came to you through Joe, who got it from Lennie, right? Interesting note -- Kirk studied with Don Palmer, an alto player who played in NYC from 59-75 and studied with Lennie and Lee. Don's also my ensemble teacher at school, he's made a huge difference in my time and swing in only a month...I thought you might've played with or seen him. IIRC, he played with Tito Puente's band for a few years, but I'm not sure what period.

Oh, and I'll be doing this with:

All The Things You Are
Recorda-Me or You and the Night and the Music
Body and Soul
Billie's Bounce

[jsbass]

This is jow Jaco did it.

[Charling]

Fantastic method, thanks, I already feel like I am getting alot form it after only a few sessions.

as a side question, for the purpose of this exercise, do you feel that its more important to arpeggiate the 'additions' rather than the standard chord tones when the track asks of it?

for example if confronted by a 7b9 chord on the 5, where the b9 is important as it relates (and forms a sense of unity) to a b5 on the previous 2, then would you forgo one of the other 'core' chord tones and use a b9 instead.

I guess ive made my own decision to a degree, and I know both are important in the long run. But do you feel that the exercise is so thorough that we should concentrate fully on JUST the core 1,3,5,7 arpeggio to start with before looking at extensions, or do you feel that its something to be included from the get-go?

thanks for the initial post and thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Owen

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by Charling

Fantastic method, thanks, I already feel like I am getting alot form it after only a few sessions.

as a side question, for the purpose of this exercise, do you feel that its more important to arpeggiate the 'additions' rather than the standard chord tones when the track asks of it?

for example if confronted by a 7b9 chord on the 5, where the b9 is important as it relates (and forms a sense of unity) to a b5 on the previous 2, then would you forgo one of the other 'core' chord tones and use a b9 instead.

I guess ive made my own decision to a degree, and I know both are important in the long run. But do you feel that the exercise is so thorough that we should concentrate fully on JUST the core 1,3,5,7 arpeggio to start with before looking at extensions, or do you feel that its something to be included from the get-go?

thanks for the initial post and thanks in advance for any thoughts!

Owen

Stick with function, a dominant chord with extensions is STILL a dominant chord.

Except when it's not and is just a voicing choice for another chord function....

[JazzDude]

<dumb question>
What do you guys mean by accent 1,... on eighth notes, triplets, etc?
</dumb question>

I've read through the original post several times and can't figure out what you mean. Maybe my music vocabulary has a hole in it?

[Andy Allen]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

...a dominant chord with extensions is STILL a dominant chord.

Except when it's not....

Whew - glad we cleared that one up



Andy

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by JazzDude

<dumb question>
What do you guys mean by accent 1,... on eighth notes, triplets, etc?
</dumb question>

I've read through the original post several times and can't figure out what you mean. Maybe my music vocabulary has a hole in it?

It means you accent whichever specified note. If it's accent 1 triplets, from each group of triplets, accent the first note of each triplet group (ONE two three) (ONE two three) (ONE two three).
Accent 2 triplets would then be (one TWO three) (one TWO three) etc.

for 8ths and 16ths you would accent whichever designated note in a group of 4 eighth or 16th notes (ONE and two and) (THREE and four and).

Any clearer?

[JazzDude]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

It means you accent whichever specified note. If it's accent 1 triplets, from each group of triplets, accent the first note of each triplet group (ONE two three) (ONE two three) (ONE two three).
Accent 2 triplets would then be (one TWO three) (one TWO three) etc.

for 8ths and 16ths you would accent whichever designated note in a group of 4 eighth or 16th notes (ONE and two and) (THREE and four and).

Any clearer?

Much. So you would do up to accent 4 on eighths and sixteenths, and up to 3 on triplets. Could get pretty tricky - thanks.

This can't be a bass-only exercise, since it came from Lennie Tristano. I'm trying it on sax, where my improv also sucks.

[giantrobot_69]

Ed,

Great post. The most helpful thing about playing over changes I have ever read on the web.

thanks...

[LeslieD]

Yes, indeed, a great initial post and follow up comments.

I've taken this to heart and I'm now playing several complete (but rather short) pieces from memory. The trouble is that it is affecting my sleep. All night long-in my sleep-I run over the passages in my mind. It's a lot like the time I played Tetris for two solid hours before bed--the geometric blocks were invading my dreams. In this case though, I'm actually watching myself play these particular passages from different perspectives--OVER AND OVER. Sometimes I'm playing these tunes and watching myself play at the same time. No weird freudian comments, please...

I guess I shouldn't play right before I go to bed.

[monkmonk]

It's great huh?
Wait until you start hearing clifford brown while you sleep

[giantrobot_69]

Originally Posted by LeslieD

Yes, indeed, a great initial post and follow up comments.

I've taken this to heart and I'm now playing several complete (but rather short) pieces from memory. The trouble is that it is affecting my sleep. All night long-in my sleep-I run over the passages in my mind.

Same thing is happenning to me, but then again, I do eartraining while I dream as well...

[hdiddy]

Dude, I wish I was doing that. It's like practicing while you sleep!

I think it's a good sign. Recently, there's been alot of new research saying that sleep is important for the brain's ability to learn. Sleep helps you process all the things you picked up during the day and aids retention. As long as you feel rested in the morning, you should be fine.

I don't practice in my sleep tho, however in the early morning I compose in my sleep from time to time. I'll wake up with a new tune in my head and I'll end jumping out of bed and scramble to record it or write it down somehow. Don't happen often tho.

[aceshigh]

Originally Posted by Ed Fuqua

B. IN TIME - the chord line shoudl reflect the harmonic rhythm of the tune. If the chord lasts one bar, the chord line is quarter notes. If half a bar (two beats) the chord line is eighth notes. One beat would be 16ths, two bars would be half notes. Let me know if this is not clear.

Thanks for the post. Not sure if I understand the reason behind the "in time' part. On most standards I know the bass plays quarter or eight notes regardless of the duration of the chord.

So, for each chord I play 4 bass notes. If it lasts 2 bars I play 4 1/2 notes. If it lasts 1 beat I play 4 16th notes. I'll do that but unsure why.

Cheers,

FJ

[Jeff Guevin]

Originally Posted by aceshigh

Thanks for the post. Not sure if I understand the reason behind the "in time' part. On most standards I know the bass plays quarter or eight notes regardless of the duration of the chord.

So, for each chord I play 4 bass notes. If it lasts 2 bars I play 4 1/2 notes. If it lasts 1 beat I play 4 16th notes. I'll do that but unsure why.

Cheers,

FJ

If you don't, you won't get to play many of the notes in the chord whenever they chord changes are faster than once per bar.

[Ed Fuqua]

Originally Posted by aceshigh

Thanks for the post. Not sure if I understand the reason behind the "in time' part. On most standards I know the bass plays quarter or eight notes regardless of the duration of the chord.

So, for each chord I play 4 bass notes. If it lasts 2 bars I play 4 1/2 notes. If it lasts 1 beat I play 4 16th notes. I'll do that but unsure why.

Cheers,

FJ

Because the ultimate goal is not to work on arpeggiation but on getting the sound of the harmony of a specific composition in your ear.

[aceshigh]

Point understood. Thanks a lot. Great info on this forum.