REALLY Learning a tune - Page 7

moles · #**121** 07-05-2012, 01:42 PM

I the example quoted, I had read it as indicating the notes would be played in ascending order - so the G in the 2nd Inv G7 chord would *not* be the lowest tone in the arpeggio. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Ed Fuqua · #**122** 07-05-2012, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warnergt

Hi Ed: When using 'D F G B" for the G7 chord, you are calling
this a second inversion. Generally, I think of inversions as
chords where the root is not the lowest note. Maybe I am
inferring something that I shouldn't but it appears that you
are implying that it is a second inversion by virtue of the fact
that the root does not get played on the first note in the
arpeggiated chord. Is that correct?

I guess I'm just trying to understand the semantics correctly
here. Is it the convention to call an arpeggiated chord
inverted when the root note does not appear first even if it
may still happen to be the lowest note played?

First, it may help to start thinking of notes and pitches as separate entities. There is only one NOTE G, but there are any number of PITCHES that are G, right? With your question, you seem to be thinking that, even though the NOTES are arranged in the order that they should be played (D F G B) that the PITCHES are not. This is not the case. As relates to the fingerboard, one possible fingering for this would be D fifth fret on the A string to Fthird fret on the D string to G fifth fret on the D string to B fourth fret on the G string. All the pitches ascend.

Again, we were talking about proximity. If you keep that in mind, from your root position D minor 7 chord (D F A C, bottom to top), if you are keeping two pitches constant (D and F) and want to move the other two voices proximately, you want to move them to the PITCH that is the closest NOTE, right? So why would you drop the G an octave, simply because it's the tonic of the chord? The closest G pitch to the A (2nd fret on the G string) is either the open G string or the G that is the fifth fret on the D string.

Is that clearer?

**Damon Rondeau** · #**123** 07-05-2012, 05:50 PM

You've got frets in NYC??? Damn - that explains a lot.

DC Bass · #**124** 07-05-2012, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damon Rondeau

You've got frets in NYC??? Damn - that explains a lot.

"Was it OVER when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

warnergt · #**125** 07-05-2012, 09:45 PM

I understand. That makes sense.
You weren't implying that it was inverted by virtue of the fact
that the root was not played first. It was inverted because the
root note was not the bass note.
However, because the root note was not played first, it made
sense to be inverted because of where it would logically be played.

Ed Fuqua · #**126** 07-06-2012, 06:23 AM

Hmmm. I'm not sure what you're saying warner. The sentence "...because the root note was not played first, it made sense to be inverted because of where it would logically be played." does not convey any meaning to me.
Are you solid on what an inversion is? We're not talking about a bass line, we're talking about a specific definition. If I play D B G descending, I have NOT played a second inversion triad simply because I started on D. I've played a ROOT position triad, descending. The bottom note of the arpeggio or chord defines the position/voicing. If, instaed of playing those notes descending, what am I playing if I played the same notes, but in ascending pitches? What would you call that?

GrowlerBox · #**127** 07-07-2012, 10:57 PM

If ... she weighs ... the same as a duck ... then she's made of wood ...
And therefore?

DC Bass · #**128** 07-08-2012, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrowlerBox

If ... she weighs ... the same as a duck ... then she's made of wood ...
And therefore?

She turned me into a newt!

Michael Eisenman · #**129** 07-19-2012, 11:26 PM

I'm just getting started with this, and I'm confused about the proximity/close position concept. The examples in this thread seem to emphasize ascending direction, but I'm gonna run out of fingerboard if I keep going in one direction. Are we trying to stay in one position?

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned ascending/descending, so I suppose either is okay to make it to the nearest note. I also assume that it's okay to drop an octave to get to the next closest note (not pitch). After all, if the intent is to hear the chords, then I can accomplish that in whichever way minimizes shifts, no? This is what I understand from what I've read, and I've been through this thread several times trying to answer these questions. Or I've missed it.

I see great potential in this exercise. Thanks, Ed.

Ed Fuqua · #**130** 07-20-2012, 11:08 AM

I'm not quite sure I understand this Mike. From the example given (Dm7 G7 Cmaj7 ) you shouldn't even have to move out of one position. From the root position of the first chord
D F A C (1 possibility, starting on D on your A string) the next chord uses the exact same notes/pitches (D F) and moves two notes; one a whole step down (A to G) and one a half step down (C to B). Then the next chord does something similar D moves down a whole step to C (root), F moves down a half step to E(third) and the G (fifth) and B (maj 7th) stay where they were. Does that make things clearer?
If not, gimme a little while and I'll try to attach a pdf from the book.

Michael Eisenman · #**131** 07-20-2012, 11:59 AM

Thanks for the quick reply, Ed.

Okay, so when the first chord ends on C (G string), you go back down to D on the A string, rather than continuing with D on the G string. That's what I was getting at—same note; original pitch.

I just found it in your book, not surprisingly in the "Proximity of fingering" section. I'm still in Part 1. I needed the visual aid.

What led me to this thread is an immediate need to figure out a bass line to play for "It's Alright With Me" (Kai Winding/JJ Johnson arrangement). All I have are melody and chords. I have to come up with something, but I have no delusions of being able to play like that. This should help me get the structure into my head.

Thanks again.

Ed Fuqua · #**132** 07-20-2012, 11:15 PM

Check out page 9, the chord line for SEPTEMBER IN THE RAIN, the lowest note is the F below the staff (half step above the open E string) and the highest note is the Eb above the staff (which is the Eb above the D on your G string).
So it sounds like you're on the right track...

atomicdog · #**133** 12-03-2012, 09:29 PM

Good stuff, Ed. Rufus Reid also recommends learning some piano to help get the theory part down. There is something to be said for the way a keyboard lays everything out in a linear fashion. Can't hurt.

hdiddy · #**134** 12-11-2012, 10:26 AM

Just out of curiosity FOGHORN:

Have you ever take this approach, and replaced the melody with a chorus from someone's solo? I suppose if you're working on something like Donna Lee, you're essentially working on Back Home in Indiana but playing Bird's solo/head for the melody.

Not that you'd really want to use Donna Lee as your learning vehicle tho... but just to get the idea across.

Ed Fuqua · #**135** 12-11-2012, 11:04 AM

Not really, I work on Bird heads as Bird heads and solos as solos (with the method I talk about elsewhere), this exercise is about something else, right? But there's no reason that one of your 4 "tear apart" tunes can't be QUASIMODO instead of EMBRACEABLE YOU, it's just that EY is gonna be a LOT easier to cop...

hdiddy · #**136** 12-11-2012, 11:23 AM

True, it's about nailing the melody inside/out/at-every-single-beat. I'll go back and read your posts about transcriptions and what not. I think I already copped your approach in that regard or got it from someone else.

Does Joe say anything in particular? Just wondering if you guys had something that was outlined methodically. I turned a horn-player friend of mine onto Joe's slow approach and he seems to like it. Wondering about other things I could give him.