Rhythm Books

[Rob Sleeper]

Hi everyone,

Could you recommend some good rhythm books? One of my huge weaknesses as a student is getting the rhythm. I really want to improve on my nemesis.

Thanks so much

[jsbarber]

No one has responded to your question, so I'll give you my answer, FWIW. The answer is not in "books".

I looked at your profile and you seem to be very classically oriented. I don't think of classical music as being particularly rhythmically oriented, especially as compared to jazz, or blues, and other more modern genres (latin - Cuban/Brazilian). So, if all you have been listening to is classical, you may benefit from exposing yourself to some of these other more rhythmically oriented genres. In addition to listening to this music, you may want to purchase some percussion instruments (a good set of bongos, for instance) and play along with some of this music to internalize the rhythms. I would expect that this would help out considerably with your ability to feel the rhythms. [And with rhythms it's about feel not counting, if you have to count then you haven't internalized the rhythm.] Once you have done this it should help you with rhythm in classical music, if that is what you choose to play.

[Added later] Thinking abou this a little more. I don't even think that written music does a very good job of representing rhythms. There are patterns of notes (combinations of quarter notes, eightht notes, dotted quarter notes....) that are put together to describe certain rhythmic patterns. But actual played rhythms contain a lot of subtleties that are not represented. This is why you need to listen to music. To get the feel of the rhythm that is intended to be represented by those combinations of notes. If you read some of the posts here on TBDB you'll see people talking about being on top of the beat, a little ahead, a little behind and the dynamics it creates with the other players. This is never represented in written music. You learn this by listening, feeling and playing. OK, enough.

My two cents worth,

Jim

[Rob Sleeper]

Thank you so much Jim! I also read your pm. It was very informative. I will defiantly take into heart your response.

Thank you again.

[koricancowboy]

Originally Posted by jsbarber

I don't think of classical music as being particularly rhythmically oriented, especially as compared to jazz, or blues, and other more modern genres (latin - Cuban/Brazilian)

I am going to have to seriously disagree with you here. I think you may need to listen to more classical music. (By classical music I assume you are referring to the blanket term and not the actual period of music.) In fact all music is comprised of just rhythm and pitch. Listen to Mozart 40, Beethoven 5 or The William Tell Overture. The rhythms that make up those themes are so strong that I could tap them for you and you could more than likely recognize them with out hearing the pitch at all. In reality Jazz and Latin music have a lot in common with so called classical music. This is a common impasse that classical and jazz players reach. If by rhythmic you mean more ostinato feeling then you may be right as the those musics tend to have rhythm sections that embellish on the same basic feel over and over.

Having said all of that, I love playing as many different kinds of music as I can. I just had a conversation with someone today over Bach's improvisational skills and Mingus' skills as a composer. I don't really see the difference between the two.

So to answer the original question if you are looking to feel rhythmic patterns in music, then a bit of transcription will go a long way. If you are talking about figuring out what Hindemith wrote just practice reading different rhythms. On top of it all just listen listen listen. Written music is a guide. What the music is really is up to interpretation. to practice reading rhythms I would recommend the Louie Bellson reading books.

Anyhow hope that helps and also hope I didn't offend anyone. This is just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
OZ

[jsbarber]

Originally Posted by koricancowboy

I am going to have to seriously disagree with you here.
...
Anyhow hope that helps and also hope I didn't offend anyone. This is just my 2 cents.

Cheers,
OZ

No offense taken. I thought the classical comments might not go unchallenged.


There seems to be two components to the issue. (i) One is, when reading music, tryng to determine the rhythm of the sequence of notes in a measure or a phrase. (ii) The other is being able to internalize that rhythm, so you don't need to count it out every time you go through it. I assumed the issue was with the latter.

Actually, there is a third, which is (iii) how the music is typically phrased, or how you choose to interpretively phrase it. (Certain types of music tend to have standard ways of phrasing things.)

It seems that for
(i) working with the books that OZ suggests would be helpful, as would the transcription that he suggests.
(ii) I think that listening to music, and playing some kind of percussion along with music you listen to, will both help with the internalization. (And if you do this with music in the genre you are trying to learn it will help with (iii) also.)
(iii) Listening to music in whatever genre you are trying to play in will help you develop a feel for how "that language is spoken".

In any event, if rhythm is your biggest weakness Rob, then specifically focusing on improving your ability in that regard is a smart thing to do.

Jim

[Rob Sleeper]

Thanks Oz and Jim. Ya I want to become a professional player and it is just something I HAVE to work on.

[bonaventura]

Originally Posted by Rob Sleeper

Hi everyone,

Could you recommend some good rhythm books? One of my huge weaknesses as a student is getting the rhythm. I really want to improve on my nemesis.

Thanks so much

Rob

I'm going to go straight to your question in a moment. I agree with what's said here: You won't "get rhythm" from a book. It's not seen. It's in your mind and you can practice it -- by listening, by playing in rhythm. Do you use a nome when you practice? That's key.

Now your question asked about a book that might help. I do know of one: Rufus Reid's Evolving Bassist has a large section of exercises designed to practice rhythmic feel and timing. It's useful for both pizz and arco.

Cheers

bill

[Ed Fuqua]

Charles Colin publishers has a couple of nice books for sight reading rhythms here. Personally, I've used the Bower/Colin RHYTHMS book...

[EJ_Dad]

101 Rythmic Rest Patterns
It maybe for band, so get a Trombone/Baritone BC book.

[Rob Sleeper]

Thanks everyone, this is all very helpful.

[anon_6j591b0]

Modern Reading Text in 4/4 by Louis Bellson is a good one.

[Reuben]

+1 on the Bellson. Also:

Elementary Training for Musicians, by Paul Hindemith

Ear Training: Basic Instruction in Melody and Rhythm Reading, by Jorgen Jerslid

But if you could only get one, get the Bellson. It'll keep you busy for a long time.

[dodgy_ian]

+1 on the Bellson - its excellent. Also when you have worked through that the Bellson Odd Time SIgs is excellent too - and about twice as thick!