Scale Fingerings

mattb43 · #1 12-14-2007, 11:23 PM

I have been playing electric bass for over 20 years
and have recently taken up the upright. I'm hunting
for a teacher, but in the meantime want to get started
practicing scales to get a jump on things. Attached
are a couple of two octave scales (Emaj and Gmaj)
that I have put notes and fingerings on. The fingerings
are what I have figured out using Simandl and Vance
books as a reference (plus the influence of what I have
been doing on the electric for so long). Could some experienced players please take a look at these and
comment. I'd like to know if the shifts could be done
more efficiently.
Thanks
mb

Bill Bentgen · #2 12-19-2007, 09:26 AM

Matt

Here's what I use after 43 years of evolving:

http://www.billbentgen.com/music/scales/scales.pdf

These are for 5-string using strict Simandl fingering. Ignore the scales below E if you have a 4-string.

The fingerings are a synthisis of Simandl, Trumpf, and Montag. The fingerings work if you play 1, 2, or 3 octave scales. Just ignore the middle 4 measures if you're playing 1 octave scales and ignore the middle 2 measures if your playing 2 octave scales.

The fingerings are a lot more standarized than you'll see elsewhere.

By no means are these the only way you should practice scales. These are the fingerings that work for me.

I put a podcast together for accompaniment. Do a search on scales or Bentgen in iTunes under podcast if you're interested.

Stumpy · #3 12-19-2007, 09:43 AM

Thank you. That is very cool...

mattb43 · #4 12-19-2007, 08:49 PM

Thanks Bill. I thought I was invisible or something.
I appreciate you sharing your insight and experience.
I'm starting with my teacher first thing after the new
year. This will help me get a bit of a jump.
I'll let you know how things turn out. All I know
right now is that after many years of searching,
I have finally found my true love..
mb

Aaron · #5 12-20-2007, 12:08 AM

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I've never really seen value in practicing scales with specific fingerings written above them. In my daily scale routine, I run scales in different fingerings. When it comes to efficient movement, I just try to shift as little as possible. That generally means playing as many notes in one position as I can, then shifting into a position where I can cover as much new ground as possible. I try shifting in different areas. Sometimes I might want to stay on the A or D string a bit longer for a darker tone. In the lower register, I sometimes I play scales without the open notes. I frequently practice scales going up and down on one string. To me, it seems that it is easier and gives you more flexibility to remember basic concepts of shifting than trying to remember a bunch of different fingerings for scales and arpeggios. Even for the sake of memorizing fingerings for certain shapes, why not just remember a few different fingerings for the basic tetrachords?

I know I'm missing something, because it seems that everyone has sheets and sheets of scales with 1 4 2 4 1 4 2 4, etc. written above them.

Bill Bentgen · #6 12-20-2007, 07:33 AM

Aaron,

I agree with you in part. I've put scale excercises together over the years that do exactly what you say. Scales across the strings, scales up and down the string, scales that stay in the lower positions and then go up, and scales that go up the string and then across.

It's all to gain facility to draw upon for when the real music is placed in front of us. There is a pdf book called "Supplemental Exercises" on my website that is a start on putting these exercises together.

Scales are "pushups" for musicians. You do them over and over to build up strength, intonation, bowing skills, tone, and a hard-wired knowledge of the fingerboard. Pick a scale, any scale, play it over and over a gazillion times, try to keep it in tune, try to make a nice tone, try different bowings, and your overall playing will improve.

koricancowboy · #7 12-20-2007, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aaron

Maybe someone can enlighten me.

I've never really seen value in practicing scales with specific fingerings written above them. In my daily scale routine, I run scales in different fingerings. When it comes to efficient movement, I just try to shift as little as possible. That generally means playing as many notes in one position as I can, then shifting into a position where I can cover as much new ground as possible. I try shifting in different areas. Sometimes I might want to stay on the A or D string a bit longer for a darker tone. In the lower register, I sometimes I play scales without the open notes. I frequently practice scales going up and down on one string. To me, it seems that it is easier and gives you more flexibility to remember basic concepts of shifting than trying to remember a bunch of different fingerings for scales and arpeggios. Even for the sake of memorizing fingerings for certain shapes, why not just remember a few different fingerings for the basic tetrachords?

I know I'm missing something, because it seems that everyone has sheets and sheets of scales with 1 4 2 4 1 4 2 4, etc. written above them.

I think it really helps sight reading to have a mother fingering.

Just MHO

Cheers,
OZ

neilG · #8 12-20-2007, 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koricancowboy

I think it really helps sight reading to have a mother fingering.

Just MHO

Cheers,
OZ

I disagree. The more fingering options you have at your disposal, the easier it will be to sightread, IMHO. "Mother" needs dad and the kids to help out. Practice ALL of it.

Bethelbass1 · #9 12-21-2007, 10:36 PM

With the need for multiple fingerings in mind I would suggest Eugene Levinson's (NY Phil Principal) School of Agility. Its a book comprised solely of scales and arpeggios with almost every fingering imaginable. I practice with this book all the time and still haven't covered everything once (I spent a whole on just the permutations of G major!)

mattb43 · #10 12-22-2007, 07:40 PM

Great discussion and very important points. For me,
I'm just trying to get out of the woods since this
is such a different and challenging instrument than
the electric bass. I've been trying various fingerings,
but there are so many possible variations it's a bit
confusing. Plus I have all the natural patterns that
I have been playing for so long on the electric, it would
be easy to just use those. Having a starting place such
as the one that Bill shared is very helpful to get me
thinking in terms of the new instrument. I'm sure that
my teacher will provide much more info. For now I have
some great stuff to get started. Thanks for the help.
mb

Mike Montgomery · #11 12-23-2007, 04:04 PM

Bethelbass1 wrote: "I would suggest Eugene Levinson's (NY Phil Principal) School of Agility."

Bill Bentgen wrote: "I use after 43 years of evolving ...strict Simandl fingering."
----------------------------------------------

I also started on electric and took up double bass later. I used basic Simandl for many years, then several years ago began working out of Levinson's book about 45 minutes a day, and for the past year or so have been warming up with Rabbath's (Volume III) scales for about an hour each day. I thought Rabbath was insane when I started. I'm using a combination of the three approaches now, and fully recommend all three- so many doors have been opened for me (and this after 30+ years of classical double bass!)

Good luck to you with the new teacher!

bassbuddie · #12 02-29-2008, 07:33 PM

I think it is good to pratice one fingering, then tried other fingering. In real situation, you wont play scales up and down, so you need different fingerings.

TB II · #13 05-08-2008, 11:30 PM

For someone such as myself who is just getting back into the instrument really seriously after 30 years of not playing it, all of of this is very helpful to me.
Thanks!