What's your opinion on music theory?

[carl h.]

Originally Posted by Thumpie

Also: to dumb it down: Yes, I can use a theorem to explain why a 5th sounds good. And that same theorem will explain why it sounds a little bit better when the 5th is a little bit sharp.

You mean the entire interval is sharp relative to the key center or the interval is augmented (or diminished)?

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by Mushroo

If someone can't read a note of music and doesn't know what a C7 chord is, but can play killer lines over challenging tunes in a wide variety of styles, would you consider that person to have "good music theory" or "bad music theory"?

I would consider them extremely rare. Not to say it NEVER happens, but in 41 years of playing I don't think I've ever met someone that meets this entire description. I met a couple of really good guitar players that couldn't tell you what key they playing in, but they only knew one style.

[hdiddy]

This thread is getting just about as stupid as the "Why isn't Jazz Popular" thread.

[Thumpie]

Originally Posted by carl h.

You mean the entire interval is sharp relative to the key center or the interval is augmented (or diminished)?

I was referring to even temperament vs. other tuning systems (like just intonation, etc.).

Even temperament slightly flattens the 5th where physics (and many careful listeners) says it should be. It does this in order to open up other harmonic possibilities.

Without music theory, we wouldn't be able to even figure out why a tuning system should or shouldn't be used.

You might think you don't need theory, but you're riding on the shoulders of others who have thought a lot about the design of the tuning system you take for granted...

[Bruce Lindfield]

Originally Posted by oboylebass

You should approach music like learning the English language.

Spend about 5 years, learning the basics from your parents. Then go to school for over 10 years learning from teachers and books. Then forget it all, mumble incoherently and just use the occasional swear words/slang that's in vogue with your best friends!

[NicholasF]

Originally Posted by Bruce Lindfield

Spend about 5 years, learning the basics from your parents. Then go to school for over 10 years learning from teachers and books. Then forget it all, mumble incoherently and just use the occasional swear words/slang that's in vogue with your best friends!

Sadly thats whats happening, just without any education or parents

[137h4lone]

learn everything and anything you can ! thats what i say.

[smcfarland1337]

I feel as of every musician knows a bit of theory just from being a musician.
Without even knowing music, if you play a crap note that doesn't go after the note you had previously played, you will know it.

You also know not to play insane time signatures in the middle of a 4/4 with notes that don't fit.

Basically common sense = theory. It's like life, you know the general idea of how something works, but if you really wanna get into it, you further your learning.
Not saying you NEED theory to really get into bass (trust me, I'm not a hypocrite), I'm just using an example.

[Rutherford_Fan]

Music theory is probably my most favorite tool in the box, so to speak. I compose just as much or more (now-a-days) than I play, so it is nothing other than essential. Sure you can compose by ear, but it would take probably 10 to 15 times as long, and in the end, you will likely end up with something that has an air of immaturity to it. I am not being harsh, but I am just saying that if you COMPOSE as well as play, I don't see how you could not be proficient in music theory.

Honestly, I try to soak up the latest and most cutting edge theory I can. I am reading a book right now that analyzes the so-called "Extended Common Practice" period (ie: from Romanticism through today but excluding strict atonality such as serialism, but including expressionism, impressionism, minimalism, jazz...) by using mathematical Set Theory and Abstract Algebra. It is great and it is already helping my compositions gain greater maturity.

That is just my take.

[Rick Auvil]

If you know anything about music, to some extent you know music theory! Knowledge is power. If musicians understand and intelligently hear what they are doing, the result is usually a better performance. Music theory, including ear training should be learned along with the fundamentals of making music so it sinks in over the course of your musical life. Learn to play music, and learn about music!

Rick Auvil
B.S. Music Education
M.A. Music Theory and Composition

[dmstkd4187]

It's very helpful . But the importante thing is not just knowing theory, is making theory to music.

[Dimmik]

I get the sneaking suspicion that a lot of people here are saying theory isn't that important because they don't know that much of it. Yes, it's important. Walking a bass in, say Db major, is hard to do by just winging it off the top of your head because you're not going to have the option of playing open notes very much. You'd better know what notes you have available and where they are located on the fingerboard and how to string them together.

Another area where knowing theory is important is when you get called up to do a gig on short notice and you show up and someone hands you a chart or a page from a fake book. Can't read it? Guess what, you're probably not equipped to do that gig. Can you be this guy who is so good at improvisation that it doesn't matter and you can play your way through anything and sound good? Yes, I suppose you can be. Are you, though? I'll bet you're not. I'm certainly not and I gig a lot. In one case I played for a pianist who had his sheet music on his keyboard--just old jazz standards. I read it over his shoulder to pick up bass lines. Could I have improvised it? Frankly, no, I couldn't. If I could, I wouldn't have been reading over his shoulder. But because I can read it, I got through the gig just fine.

Even playing in a two-feel situation of root-fifth takes some creativity to pull off without sounding monotonous as hell. Root-fifth is sometimes harder than walking because you have to use your imagination to give the piece the necessary motion by incorporating upper fifths and lower fifths and passing notes and sevenths. It's better to have that theory in your head than to be trying to wing it intuitively. If you start playing something and the bandleader looks at you and says, "Hey, it's ii-V, ii-V!" and you don't know what ii-V is, that'll be the last gig you ever play with him.

Don't read the words of Bird saying to forget all that ******** and just play too literally. Don't use them as an excuse not to know your theory because I'll guarantee you that that was NOT what he was saying. If you're playing double bass then you really have to know some theory. I don't think there's any way around it. You might get away with not knowing theory if you play just blues or bluegrass or rockabilly (although I won't swear to that) but playing jazz or classical with no theory background? As far as I am concerned that is simply not going to happen.

[hdiddy]

Nope, IMO, that's not it at all.

Theory can't explain why a melody sounds "good". Theory can't teach you how to imagine new and beautiful melodies, just as studying Grammar can't teach you how to write good poetry.

[Dimmik]

Actually theory does explain that. Professional writers make constant use of various intervals and chords in order to get a sweet sound, a poignant sound, a dark sound, a happy sound, a sad sound, a scary sound.

Why does "Harlem Nocturne" sound romantic? Because it establishes a base of notes and then shifts them upwards and repeats the same pattern in consecutive bars--standard way of getting something to sound romantic.

Want to write something menacing? Use a minor interval and/or the tritone. You'll get it. Ask Frank Comstock who wrote the infamous "Dragnet" opening.

If you think guys like Bernard Herrmann or Dominic Frontiere or Harry Lubin or Earle Hagen didn't use theory to evoke certain atmospheres in the movie scores and TV themes they wrote, you're really fooling yourself.

Theory is incredibly helpful if you take the time to learn it.

[Kmonk]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

Well not that this hasn't come up before, but there is a certain amount of theory that every pro knows, regardless of whether they "know theory" or not.

Though many players make it without any theory or instruction, they are very few and far between. The average working player spends a lot of time learning all kinds of music and styles, regardless if they learn the names for it or not.

Why deny yourself the knowledge of learning theory though? Your only short changing yourself.

I fit into this category. I play with a keyboard player who has degrees from three music colleges including Berklee and currently teaches music at a prestigious prep school. He once used a theory term to tell me what he wanted me to play on an original song. I told him that I had no idea what he was talking about because I didn't understand theory. He asked how I could play the way I do without knowing theory. After a few more days of playing together he told me that I had a great understanding of theory even if I didn't know the terminology.

[hgiles]

Music theory helps you understand what youre playing; therefore it helps you remember what youre learning. Most importantly thought it gives you an idea of where to look for things.

i am going to use every tool available to advance my craft.

[Rockin Mike]

Notes are notes. Play a lot of them as fast as you can and everybody will think you are great.
JK

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by carl h.

I've spent years learning theory so I don't have to think about it. I know what I'm doing mostly.

This is exactly what I thought. And your football player analogy is perfect, even though it DISproves your point. The football player does those drills to PROGRAM himself. That way he doesn't HAVE to think. Had he not done them, he would STILL have to watch his feet and think about his every move. And he would get creamed every time.

It's the same for my playing. I learned the keys inside and out. Now I can go with my gut when playing. Because I drilled and drilled on scales and fingering exercises, now all I have to do is play. And I bet you would be surprised at the amount of theory that most pros know.

[MartinBorgen]

I suppose this argument is not really applicable for classical players...

[MostlyBass]

How can more knowledge be a bad thing?