1970's the dark ages of fender??

[DeliriumTremens]

Originally Posted by georgiagoodie

Nice Bass!

I love my '74 as well

I am confused. If the '70s were so bad, why are they now issuing '74 AND '75 Jazz reissues, as well as Geddy's & Marcus Miller's?

Because they look cool, have a different tone to the '60s models and there's a lot of young players now who were not around in the '70s to have played the crap ones so they don't have a bias against them. When they're made right those '70s style Jazzes are great basses.

[narud]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

And my light ones have a "warm bloom" and "midrange girth" that you don't get from the heavy ones. And the best part? They aren't heavy as hell.

the difference being im not calling the light one dogs like most of the detractors of this era. i had a 78 jazz that was 9.4 pounds and i couldnt sell it fast enough. it didnt work for me and my tastes. im not saying theyre toneless dogs though.

[Flabass]

Originally Posted by ClassicJazz

Hands down my '72 Jazz is one of the best basses I have ever owned/played! No effort to play it, only 8.9 lbs and man that vintage tone is awesome.

Had your exact '72 bass. Bought a Les Paul Recording bass and sold the J. Still cry when I think about it.

[PDQbass]

Originally Posted by smcd

Myth. Right. Everybody with any experience agrees, but it's a myth....

During the 1990's I scoured the classifieds and went to countless dozens of guitar shows in and around the northeast. I was always on the lookout for Fender bargains, and most of the bargains were on 70's Fenders. A lat 60's P-bass would be priced in the $1,500-$2,000 range, but a '76 would be $500. I've picked up and played so many CBS-era Fenders I couldn't begin to come up with a number. Invariably, when I was holding a bass that weighed a ton, had dead spots, sounded and played like crap, it was a mid-late 70's model. Where are these basses? I don't know, because I never bought one. You might find this shocking, but people don't hold onto instruments that are boat oars. They dump them for short dough to people who modify them to make them playable.




- I get a big kick out of people chiming in this thread with stuff like "All 70's Fenders were crap?! Yeah?! Well I have one that's nice, so THERE!" This despite *everyone* saying that not all 70's Fenders were junk. Man, you just can't talk to some people....

Well, I do have a little experience, probably more than you, as I have been playing since 1958. I have been a pro musician since 1963, playing with John Lee Hooker when he toured the UK and doing a lot of theatre work and touring since then. I was merely expressing my opinion, garnered from experience of the many 70's Pbasses I have played over the years. Only ever saw one really bad one, which I think had been mistreated, otherwise all pretty good - although some played better than others. Just my opinion, which I believe I'm entitled to.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by PDQbass

Well, I do have a little experience, probably more than you, as I have been playing since 1958. I have been a pro musician since 1963, playing with John Lee Hooker when he toured the UK and doing a lot of theatre work and touring since then. I was merely expressing my opinion, garnered from experience of the many 70's Pbasses I have played over the years. Only ever saw one really bad one, which I think had been mistreated, otherwise all pretty good - although some played better than others. Just my opinion, which I believe I'm entitled to.

Well said.

btw, according to Mr. SMCD's profile he has a 78 Jazz Bass

[PDQbass]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Well said.

btw, according to Mr. SMCD's profile he has a 78 Jazz Bass

Thanks, mate - appreciate it.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by Flabass

Had your exact '72 bass. Bought a Les Paul Recording bass and sold the J. Still cry when I think about it.

Fender was still churning out good stuff in '72. The general consensus is that the downward slide began around '73.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

If Fender quality did NOT take a nose dive in the 70's, and they were in fact just as good as the 60's models, where did this myth come from? Why would so many people conspire to fabricate these lies about an arbitrary era of Fender manufacturing? What would be gained?

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

If Fender quality did NOT take a nose dive in the 70's, and they were in fact just as good as the 60's models, where did this myth come from? Why would so many people conspire to fabricate these lies about an arbitrary era of Fender manufacturing? What would be gained?

Why do people insist that preCBS Fenders sound better than modern Fenders? I know you don't believe that? Why do people insist that modern Fenders have to be tried by the truck load to find a good one? I don't believe that. Who knows how all of this gets started, but it doesn't make any of it fact?

And even if QC went down in the 70s, it doesn't mean that all or even most 70s Fenders are bad.

btw, there is a spread sheet floating around on FDP forum of 70s Fender bass weights (a somewhat random sample), and most are 10.5 pounds or under (many of them lighter) -- that fact will not get in the way of hyperbole and exaggeration, though, I'm sure! My own 70s Fenders are really nice (76 Jazz with a nice stable neck and killer tone @ 9 pounds, and 74 Precision ditto, also @ 9 pounds).

[narud]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

If Fender quality did NOT take a nose dive in the 70's, and they were in fact just as good as the 60's models, where did this myth come from? Why would so many people conspire to fabricate these lies about an arbitrary era of Fender manufacturing? What would be gained?

if you like light, blooming sounding fender (like those in the 60's and early 70's) youre going to hate the typical 70's fender. if you like what the typical 70's fender has to offer than its easy to pick one up that youll like. if youre playing a 70's bass and wanting a light one, youre going to have to hunt out a "good" one. neck flips,dead spots,neck pocket gaps are all present in every era of fender.

[Ric5]

I remember all the stink back in the 70s how the Fender basses weren't as good as the pre-CBS Fenders. The 3 bolt models were especially bad, because the 3rd bolt was a tilt adjustment. This meant that the neck was held in place by 2 screws. Bad Design! I like the MusicMan design with 6 screws.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by Ric5

I remember all the stink back in the 70s how the Fender basses weren't as good as the pre-CBS Fenders. The 3 bolt models were especially bad, because the 3rd bolt was a tilt adjustment. This meant that the neck was held in place by 2 screws. Bad Design! I like the MusicMan design with 6 screws.

Two screws, are you sure? This just illustrates my point, Dan!

[portlandguy]

The worst Fender era (70's or early 90's possibly) is better than the great era of any other brand.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Why do people insist that preCBS Fenders sound better than modern Fenders? I know you don't believe that? Why do people insist that modern Fenders have to be tried by the truck load to find a good one? I don't believe that. Who knows how all of this gets started, but it doesn't make any of it fact?

And even if QC went down in the 70s, it doesn't mean that all or even most 70s Fenders are bad.

btw, there is a spread sheet floating around on FDP forum of 70s Fender bass weights (a somewhat random sample), and most are 10.5 pounds or under -- that fact will not get in the way of hyperbole and exaggeration, though, I'm sure! My own 70s Fenders are really nice (76 Jazz with a nice stable neck and killer tone @ 9 pounds, and 74 Precision ditto, also @ 9 pounds).

Well, I can more easily understand the lavish love of pre-CBS Fenders. People tend to romanticize all things vintage. It's less likely a mass of people -- who actually played Fenders in the 70's, worked in music stores, etc -- would collectively adopt the same negative opinions about a specific era.

And I have not heard anyone say that modern Fenders must be tried by the truckload to find a good one. By and large the comments I see are that the current American made instruments are predominantly good.

And while most 70's Fenders probably are 10.5 pounds and under, that's still far heavier than other eras. Are there players, like narud, who actually like the extra weight? Sure. But we're talking about collective consensus. The average bassist doesn't want to wear a 9.8 pound bass for a 3-hour gig.

[johng999]

I own a '69 jazz (had since new), a 73 and 78 Precision, and a 69 Telecaster. All are great basses. Every one of them sounds great - the 78 is probably an example of the QC you all mention - it has a gap at the neck joint, and it weighs a little over 10 lbs (ash), the finish spray on the neck is not so good, but man it will sustain all day, no dead spots and records like no other.
A couple of weeks ago I sat in with a blues band and the bassplayer had a 77 jazz. Great neck (yes, it had the tilt) and tone, probably close to 10 lbs in weight. I had no problems with it.

[narud]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

Well, I can more easily understand the lavish love of pre-CBS Fenders. People tend to romanticize all things vintage. It's less likely a mass of people -- who actually played Fenders in the 70's, worked in music stores, etc -- would collectively adopt the same negative opinions about a specific era.

And I have not heard anyone say that modern Fenders must be tried by the truckload to find a good one. By and large the comments I see are that the current American made instruments are predominantly good.

And while most 70's Fenders probably are 10.5 pounds and under, that's still far heavier than other eras. Are there players, like narud, who actually like the extra weight? Sure. But we're talking about collective consensus. The average bassist doesn't want to wear a 9.8 pound bass for a 3-hour gig.

talkbass by no means represents the general consensus. i rarely see some of the brands out at gigs that show up on talkbass. i do see a lot of fenders, and a lot of them that would be considered dogs by posters here.

my F bass vf5 (i didnt custom order, but bought it off of ebay) was intentionally made with heavy northern ash and weighs in at ten and half pounds or so. thats not a lack of quality control, but an instrument made to capture the tone of a typical mid to late 70's fender. thats part of the recipe and part of those 70's funk/r&b recordings where 70's fenders were used and up front and present in the mix.

[king_biscuit]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

Well, I can more easily understand the lavish love of pre-CBS Fenders. People tend to romanticize all things vintage. It's less likely a mass of people -- who actually played Fenders in the 70's, worked in music stores, etc -- would collectively adopt the same negative opinions about a specific era.

And I have not heard anyone say that modern Fenders must be tried by the truckload to find a good one. By and large the comments I see are that the current American made instruments are predominantly good.

And while most 70's Fenders probably are 10.5 pounds and under, that's still far heavier than other eras. Are there players, like narud, who actually like the extra weight? Sure. But we're talking about collective consensus. The average bassist doesn't want to wear a 9.8 pound bass for a 3-hour gig.

Well, mine are both 9 pounds, so there is that. btw, I worked at a music store, and handled many 70s Fenders too, and my opinion is that most were pretty good basses (guitars too) once properly set up. I do not believe that most people really know how to judge a good guitar -- in my experience selling guitars, if a guitar (or bass) has nice low action, then most people will think it is a good instrument -- so much the more if it has bright new strings. I believe that many Fenders came from the factory with bad setups. Yes, the tolerances got a bit looser later in the decade from worn equipment, but by and large that doesn't affect the tone/playability -- if properly set up. I believe that most 70s Fenders with straight necks (and a weight suited to the player) are nice playable instruments.

Now with that said, we both know that most people are not spending money on vintage Fenders just for the playability and sound, so much of your point is irrelevant for that reason alone. Also, and I have asked this several times, why can't each bass simply be judged as an individual?

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Also, and I have asked this several times, why can't each bass simply be judged as an individual?

They should, yes. But the OP's question was about the 70's as an era, and the average quality of the product they were putting out back then.

If you and a team of say 20 pro bassists could somehow go back in time and evaluate each Fender instrument as it came off the line starting in the 50's and up to today, and gauge its overall quality using perhaps a 1-10 scale, then determine an average quality score for each year, then chart the numbers using a graph, my hunch is that the chart would show a noticeable dip in the mid to late 1970's.

Btw, the ill speak of 70's Fenders can be found on the guitar forums as well. For what that's worth.

[Spinal Tapper]

I think the guitars are to blame. A buddy of mine has a 78 Telecaster. It sounds decent, feels pretty good, but won't stay in tune to save it's own life. Those 70's Fender guitar tuners were garbage.

My 75 P bass, however, stays in tune for months.

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by portlandguy

The worst Fender era (70's or early 90's possibly) is better than the great era of any other brand.

Well I'm no expert but... no. Ridiculous statement.