5'er History

[ggvicviper]

I'll try to give as best a detailed history as I can. When referring to the Low B 5-string bass, I'm gonna call it the LB5 to avoid confusion among basses like the Fender Bass V. I'm also gonna stick to talking about the 5-string, not the 6.

Alemic didn't QUITE create the LB5, it was a mod done by Jimmy Johnson and GHS as mentioned earlier. It started catching on first among the NY-based custom & non-production builders, like Ken Smith (unsure of year), Spector (1979), Steinberger (1982) and their apprentice, Fodera (1983). The original Spector NS-5 in particular is a cool instrument, as its like a triple P-bass pickup workaround smush. A link: http://www.spectorguitars.com/models/brooklyn.html - it's 3rd from the bottom. (EDIT thanks to iriegnome) Modulus also started introducting LB5s around 1978.

The Yamaha BB5000 (1984) was the first production LB5, I'm pretty sure. The production manufacturers that followed include (EDIT thanks to Avezzano) Ibanez (RB885, 1985), Guild (Pilot, 1986), Ernie Ball Music Man (Stingray 5, 1987), (EDIT thanks to dewbass4 and Peavey literature) Peavey (Dyan Bass & Foundation, 1987), G&L (L-5000, 1988), Squier (HM-5, 1989), Heartfield (DR-5, 1989?) and I'm sure others too.

In 1990 Fender introduced the Jazz Bass Plus V, and that's around the time you would have started to see more of the LB5s in stores.

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by Avezzano

the first real V string axe was brought to light by Jimmy Johnson that got the idea from his father, classic upright player well aware of the upright V string contrabass.

Anthony Jackson followed soonafter with the first prototype by Carl Thompson, but since the very narrow spacing he was strongly disappointed by the first prototype.

Other custom boutique and extremely rare attempt here and there, but the spread of the V string basses actually started around mid 90... iirc...

That's what I heard too.

[SRFSterling5]

The first low B 5 string was the Alembic that Jimmy "Flim" Johnson made famous with many great artists. The next most known 5 was the Yamaha BB5000 neck through as a collaboration between Yamaha and Nathan East. This became his signature instrument for quite a few years and I was lucky enough to see it played live with both Al Jarreau and Kenny Loggins. Many other manufacturers followed suit thereafter. I remember a live GRP Live in Session video of Abe Laboriel using what appeared to be a modified Yamaha BB series 4 string converted to a five string with very narrow string spacing as most fivers were back then. Today with improvements in string materials, extended scales of 35" and beyond, fanned frets, etc., there is no better time to get into an extended range instrument than today. Although Fender was the first manufacturer to make the electric bass popular in many musical genres, extended range instruments were pioneered by the small boutique instrument makers such as Alembic for the fiver, Carl Thompson, Ken Smith and later Fodera for the six string contrabass guitar. This also ushered in new innovative playing styles which as far as I know we're pioneered by Jimmy Johnson and Anthony Jackson.

[mongo2]

First "5 string" I ever played was in the late '60s. It was a Danelectro 6 string bass when I broke high E string and I couldn't find a replacement right away.

[Avezzano]

Ibanez actually came (one of the very first) on the market beginning of 1986: I bought on spring that year a RB885. Make a search. (Edit: it came out on1985)

One of the most exciting samples of the first lower notes is constituted by the sound of Abe Laboriel in Friends by Larry Carlton (listen to Tequila)

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by Avezzano

Ibanez actually came (one of the very first) on the market beginning of 1986: I bought on spring that year a RB885. Make a search. (Edit: it came out on1985)

One of the most exciting samples of the first lower notes is constituted by the sound of Abe Laboriel in Friends by Larry Carlton (listen to Tequila)

Good catch! I will edit my post. It's a cool looking bass too.

[Avezzano]

It was not only cool looking: you could have a really performing, light and ergonomic bass al at a very affordable price. Only thing was the narrow spacing but I got accustomed quick. My bass was polar white... it went away when... six string trend kicked in!!!

[Bassmanmike1]

Cool thread.
I am a proud owner of a 1986 Yamaha BB5000, according to the serial number. I bought it new in 1990. Apparently it had been hanging on the wall at Music Lab in Lansing Ill. for four years. It seems they couldn't give away a fiver at that time. It listed for $1200.00 but I got it on a "last years model" sale for $600.00. it's been my main ax ever since.

My understanding is that Yamaha, in a rush to get a fiver on the market simply retooled a 4 string model, hence the narrow string spacing sought after by pick players like myself. Can anyone verify this? Also, when did the first ones appear on the market, and if true, what was the 4 string model it was based on?

[jay tay]

This is an extract from "The Bass Book" by Tony Bacon & Barry Moorhouse.

"Jimmy Johnson... Had been toying with the idea of an extended bass back in the mid 1970's that would enable him to play notes below the conventional low E-string, and he'd occasionally detune his four-string as a means of venturing into lower pitched playing. His farther, who played double-bass in the Minnesota orchestra, had an instrument fitted with a mechanical 'machine', a relatively common option for orchestral basses that consists of a headstock mounted extension allowing the player to switch an extra long E-string down to as low as C... Johnson explains: 'I contacted GSH at that time and asked them if it would be possible to get a very long low E-string for electric bass to suit our extension idea. I think they were part of my decision to go to a five string rather than an extension, because they said it would be more difficult to make a long string than it would to make a standard-length string with a wider diameter.' Again from the influence of his father's orchestral background he was aware that some double bass players used five string Basses with an extra low B string...
In 1975 Johnson ordered a custom 5-string bass form Alembic. He knew that they already offered such a model which they expected to supply with an additional high C-string... Johnson ordered a five-string on which he would modify the nut and bridge to take the special GSH low-B string, giving a B-E-A-D-G tuning."

They go on to say in a later section that Several Japanese companies in the Late 70's early 80's Began making real leaps in the design an construction in production Bass Guitars. Offering ideas and features of high end and custom US Bass manufacturers, naming Active electronics, through necks, and low-B five strings as some of the features. They mention companies by Name Aria, Ibanez, and especially Yamaha "Whose BB5000 narrow spaced five string bass was a strong seller in the US thanks to the influence of players like Nathan East".

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by Avezzano

It was not only cool looking: you could have a really performing, light and ergonomic bass al at a very affordable price. Only thing was the narrow spacing but I got accustomed quick. My bass was polar white... it went away when... six string trend kicked in!!!

Cool. I own and owned a few early production LB5s myself. I have a 1987 Yamaha RBX-5, a 1988 Guild Pilot and owned a 1989 Yamaha RBX-5 and a G&L L-5000.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by jay tay

They go on to say in a later section that Several Japanese companies in the Late 70's early 80's Began making real leaps in the design an construction in production Bass Guitars. Offering ideas and features of high end and custom US Bass manufacturers, naming Active electronics, through necks, and low-B five strings as some of the features. They mention companies by Name Aria, Ibanez, and especially Yamaha "Whose BB5000 narrow spaced five string bass was a strong seller in the US thanks to the influence of players like Nathan East".

I own this book too. That paragraph was talking about not just 5-strings (which Yamaha was the only one referred to), but the leaps and bounds in Japanese construction and the trends they were taking on, including neck-thru design and the active electronics.

[jay tay]

Originally Posted by Bassmanmike1

Cool thread.
I am a proud owner of a 1986 Yamaha BB5000, according to the serial number. I bought it new in 1990. Apparently it had been hanging on the wall at Music Lab in Lansing Ill. for four years. It seems they couldn't give away a fiver at that time. It listed for $1200.00 but I got it on a "last years model" sale for $600.00. it's been my main ax ever since.

My understanding is that Yamaha, in a rush to get a fiver on the market simply retooled a 4 string model, hence the narrow string spacing sought after by pick players like myself. Can anyone verify this? Also, when did the first ones appear on the market, and if true, what was the 4 string model it was based on?

Bacon and Moorhouse state that the BB5000 was produced between 1984 and 1988.

They state "BB5000 Five-string, through neck with oval markers, one split coil, one straight pickup in metal surrounds."

[jay tay]

Sorry there's more:

Laminated Maple neck with ebony finger board, 33 9/10 inch scale, replaced by BB-5000A 1988 to 1992, and the BB-5000AF from 1989-1992.

[Ric5]

Rickenbacker came out with the 4003s5 in the mid 80s. That was the first 5 string bass that I played and later owned. Basically it is a 4 string bass with a modified bridge, headstock, and pickups, and the neck was pretty much a 4 string neck. The 4003s5 is really handy for a player who uses a pick.

According to my sources there was one 4005/5 made in 1972. I don't know if it was a low B or high C. I know there was a 4005 8 string and a 4005 6 string -->> http://www.3dentourage.com/425/4005.htm.

[jay tay]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

I own this book too. That paragraph was talking about not just 5-strings (which Yamaha was the only one referred to), but the leaps and bounds in Japanese construction and the trends they were taking on, including neck-thru design and the active electronics.

It's a nice book, a little shallow in depth in parts, but it's a nice visual reference of the Bass.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by Bassmanmike1

Cool thread.
I am a proud owner of a 1986 Yamaha BB5000, according to the serial number. I bought it new in 1990. Apparently it had been hanging on the wall at Music Lab in Lansing Ill. for four years. It seems they couldn't give away a fiver at that time. It listed for $1200.00 but I got it on a "last years model" sale for $600.00. it's been my main ax ever since.

My understanding is that Yamaha, in a rush to get a fiver on the market simply retooled a 4 string model, hence the narrow string spacing sought after by pick players like myself. Can anyone verify this? Also, when did the first ones appear on the market, and if true, what was the 4 string model it was based on?

It was based on the BB3000 I think, with a different P pickup. Also, the BB3000 has 3 knobs for blending, and the BB5000 has the flick switch to change pickups.

[Avezzano]

the BB5000 was the direct evolution of the BB1000

(EDIT: the BB1000 was the first ancestor and was born as a direct competitor to the Fender Precision, then they added a bridge pickups and other features; so the BBXXXX saga started: 1200, 1500, 3000, 5000...)

[milDoo]

Originally Posted by Handyman

Whoa! That looks like some wildly narrow string spacing.

I think I'd rather have my 5 strings closer... just me personally

[chadds]

Bass Viola, Double Basses, Uprights of five centuries ago have been three, four, five, and six stringed.

From Wiki:
In the Classical era, the double bass typically doubled the cello part an octave below, occasionally requiring descent to C below the E of the four-string double bass. In the Romantic era and the 20th century, composers such as Wagner, Mahler, Beethoven, Busoni, and Prokofiev also requested notes below the low E. There are two common methods for making these notes available to the player. Major European orchestras generally use basses with a fifth string, tuned to B three octaves and a semitone below middle C.[12] Players with standard double basses (E-A-D-G) typically play the notes below "E" an octave higher.

[smcd]

Originally Posted by Avezzano

Ibanez actually came (one of the very first) on the market beginning of 1986: I bought on spring that year a RB885. Make a search. (Edit: it came out on1985)

Very interesting. I was unaware of this bass. It certainly looks much better than it's 4-string relative.