'78 P-Bass TOO MUCH BASS! Want more... presence?

[mattorduncan]

Hey guys,

I've used an old P-Bass for nigh on a decade now, and I'm very attached to it, but it's not really working for my recordings anymore. Particularly on the low strings, it puts out a ton of subwooferish bass, and even with lots of EQ I have trouble get enough "presence" (?) out of it.

I always have trouble thinking of good examples of the sound I'm after, but a lot of Motown stuff had it going on. I'm definitely NOT looking for more high-end "string noise," a la pop punk.

What should I do? Here are the ideas I've considered so far:

Short scale? (Hofner?)

Flatwounds?

Crappy little guitar amp? (Crappy little bass amp?)

Fancy DI?

New, lighter-weight bass of some sort?

Any suggestions would be amazing.

Really appreciate the help,
Matt

PS: Here is some of my music. That might help explain what I'm going for. The "Summer Song" bass sound is close to what I want, but not quite there, and it took a hell of a lot of work just to get that far.

Matt Duncan

[deepdown]

Your pick-up is dying. Maybe a rewind to your specs?

[cassius987]

It really hasn't occurred to you to have a setup done? Look at the string action and the pickup height.

I have a Ric that does this exact same thing if the pickup is set evenly on both sides. I have to put more distance between the E string and the pickup than I do the G string and the pickup, or else E and A totally drown out D and G.

[mattorduncan]

I have adjusted the pickup height and action a bit myself, and that helped, although I am (obviously) not a guitar tech. I feel like the volume is pretty consistent across all the strings after my adjustments, but not the tone... which kind of sounds like it could be the pickups... maybe the EA pickup is getting a little tired, and not picking up as much higher frequency detail... I think they are original.

I did take it to a store a couple years ago (regarding this issue) and the guy played it a bit, and basically told me it "sounds like a P-Bass should sound." For a long time, in part because of that, I had just assumed it was the character of the bass. It does weigh quite a bit.

But you guys think that with a good setup, possibly a new or repaired pickup, I could have this thing more "present?" I wouldn't just be fighting its nature?

Also, could you recommend a set of strings that keeps a really consistent tone across all the strings? A set with a modest E? Flatwounds maybe?

Thanks again for your help,
Matt

[Caca de Kick]

Originally Posted by mattorduncan

But you guys think that with a good setup, possibly a new or repaired pickup, I could have this thing more "present?"

I hope you didn't take to a guitar center salesman for an opinion.
Take it to a real tech, tell him/her your concerns. You can't condemn the pickup withouth having it checked first.

[BlountEdge]

Are you adding any compression to the bass track while recording or mixing?

The right amount of a great (harware or software) compressor can definitely add presence in a mix.

[mattorduncan]

Ha, no, I didn't take it to GC. Just one of the 2 or 3 local music shops that specializes in guitar stuff. It didn't make it to the tech though. The resident bass player on that shift thought it sounded like it should, and pretty much turned me away. But maybe I'll take it to another shop and get it looked over and set up.

I wouldn't call any of my software comps great, but I do usually use them. That often helps, but I could still use more of the very low mids prior to the pumping (so to speak).

So I take it from your responses that you think I ought to be able to get the kind of sound I'm after from my bass, with a little TLC (of some yet-to-be-determined sort)?

I wouldn't be opposed to picking up some sort of cheapo bass for this sound, and saving my precision for the low stuff. Would a short scale do this trick? I know they often have a... plunkier sort of sound.

Thanks for all the input.

[mattorduncan]

I suppose I should add that it doesn't sound bad, really. Just not right for every situation. I suppose the ideal thing would be if I could get both tones out of it depending on preamps/tone knob/eq. Right now there's just not enough there in certain frequencies to easily boost them.

[lowphatbass]

I think you need to get the bass checked-out by somebody who know what they're doing. It sounds to me like something(s) may have drifted out of spec. A heavy-ash 70's Precision will sound different than a lightweight model, and shucks, they ALL sound and feel a bit different but you should still be able to get what you're after with that bass provided it's set-up well and functioning properly...IMO anyway.

When/if you do take it in PLEASE request that the tech keep and return to you ALL the old parts if any require replacement. They should stay with the bass.

[GlennW]

IF the wiring is not 100% factory original I'd bypass the tone pot and try different caps (without a tone pot) to get more presence. If that's not enough, go to a 500K volume pot and tone cap (no tone pot). That WILL give you more presence from the bass.

If the wiring is original, messing with it will decrease the resale value.

[koobie]

Originally Posted by mattorduncan

The "Summer Song" bass sound is close to what I want, but not quite there, and it took a hell of a lot of work just to get that far.

What strings are used on this track? How old are they? What was your bass signal chain? Are the volume and tone controls on your bass wide open?

Without knowing any of the above, I'd guess you've got fairly old strings and are going direct into an MBox or equivalent-level computer interface.

[DeathFromBelow]

Buy a Jazz.

[mattorduncan]

Thanks a lot for all the input guys. Yeah, I think I will take it in... and I'll mention the pot/cap adjustments if necessary (I don't think it's all original, the knobs definitely aren't).

You got me on the strings... they're old as hell, and I believe they're Ernie Balls, but it's been a while. I just fear the initial Blink 182 sound that new strings often make (hence my interest in flatwounds...I think). And I heard Jamerson used old ones. Maybe there's more to his sound though... hah.

And my tone and volume are all the way up.

But the rest is pretty weird. Bass-->Peavey Classic 30-->Audio Technica 4050 about 2 ft away-->Great River MP500-NV-->FireFace 800

I forget what I did to the bass track ITB, but I'm sure I probably compressed it and EQ'd it a bit.

I'll check out a J sometime...

So what kind of strings you guys thinking? None of the local shops have particularly good bass string selection, so I might need to order them in advance. (I'm in Lexington, KY)

Thanks again.

[rllefebv]

First of all, I really dig the sound of 'Summer Song'... Nice work!! If that's played with the bass in question, you're definitely getting a serviceable sound, albeit with more tweaking than you'd like...

My first step would be to do as Glenn suggested and bypass the controls by wiring the pickup directly to the output jack. This will give you a true picture of your pickup's sound without any coloration from the controls... I've done this numerous times and am constantly amazed by the 'choke' that some older electronics put on the sound. A good diagnostic step...

Then, if you're still getting the same anomalies with the E/A portion of the pickup, you can have the whole unit checked by a tech, or even get a replacement. There are a gazillion replacement pickups, and everyone has their favorite...

If the pickup is good, it may be time to wire in a new harness, (save the old stuff, some folks are fanatical about resale)... Use quality components, care in soldering and reassembly and you should be fine.

-robert

[rllefebv]

Originally Posted by mattorduncan

So what kind of strings you guys thinking? None of the local shops have particularly good bass string selection, so I might need to order them in advance. (I'm in Lexington, KY)

Thanks again.

This link will get you to JustString's D'Addario Chromes page (they also have their black nylon tapewounds on there, which are rapidly becoming my new favorite on a few basses!)

I have a couple of P's wearing Chromes and love 'em... They sound semi-brite when they're first installed, but mellow nicely within a few weeks... After that, they just keep getting better IMO... The tapes are a new guilty pleasure for me...

Actually, after reading that you've got some old strings on there, perhaps that's where you should start with your 'tone tweaking'

-robert

[walterw]

new rounds may have the punk/pop "zing", but not if you roll the tone knob back a pinch. you might get just what you need that way.

maybe the pickup overall needs to be a little further away from the strings.

[bassist4dalord]

Originally Posted by rllefebv

This link will get you to JustString's D'Addario Chromes page (they also have their black nylon tapewounds on there, which are rapidly becoming my new favorite on a few basses!)

I have a couple of P's wearing Chromes and love 'em... They sound semi-brite when they're first installed, but mellow nicely within a few weeks... After that, they just keep getting better IMO... The tapes are a new guilty pleasure for me...

Actually, after reading that you've got some old strings on there, perhaps that's where you should start with your 'tone tweaking'

-robert

Welcome to Bass Strings Online - Your Custom Bass String Shop...

Bass Strings Online is run by a TBer. Shameless plug!

[madbassplaya]

Originally Posted by bassist4dalord

Welcome to Bass Strings Online - Your Custom Bass String Shop...

Bass Strings Online is run by a TBer. Shameless plug!

I buy all my strings from BSO now and can vouch for their service. Jason is a top notch guy and yes he's a forum member. With that being said, you can register as a VIP (if you're a forum member) for great pricing on a ton of strings.

Now, as far as flats go. Would flats not just add more "boominess"?

[Hopkins]

I have found that at on my P, I can get rid of some of the boom by backing the volume knob off a bit with the tone full on.

[rllefebv]

Originally Posted by bassist4dalord

Welcome to Bass Strings Online - Your Custom Bass String Shop...

Bass Strings Online is run by a TBer. Shameless plug!

Don't know what I was thinking!! Of course you should shop here first! Can ya forgive me??

-robert