Alleva Copollo vs Nordy vs Lull vs Suhr...Fodera NYC...

[Holdsg]

Regarding the question on Nash's.
I've played some good ones, and some duds.
The best one of his I played was a J with Lollars on it. Played it in a day when I spent 3 hours at Chicago Music Exchange playing vintage Fenders. And that Nash held its own versus any of the +$8000 Fenders on the Wall tonewise. I just don't get reliced instruments, so I put the Nash back on the shelf, but it sounded and felt great. I still think its hit and miss with that brand, based on the 6 or so basses of his that I have played in stores.

CME is an interesting store, almost more of a museum cross-bred with a flea market, I say that because many of the vintage basses I tried that day were nearly unplayable. Things like stuck or broken pots, poor setups, or are boat-achor heavy. The kind of things that buyers should beware of when buying a vintage instrument.

In my personal collection, I am currently passive jazz-less, because I just can't find the right one. I have two passive P-s that are great players and tone-wise are just fantastic, a US Lakland Duck Dunn and a Nordy VP4. One has rounds, one flats, and that's the way it should be from a collection standpoint.
I have a passive Lakland Skyline DJ4 with Chi-sonics on order and an active Lull TC4 new build on order, so I'm gonna seek to cover the jazz spectrum with those.

I second the notion of its great to have so many good choices these days.

[narud]

Originally Posted by ghoulbug

You'd probably recommend the AV Reissues, right?
I regret not getting one for myself, all the while watching the price jump up from around $1100 to $1800.

Seeing as how I'd never feel comfortable paying over $3000 for a classic Fender style bass, I'll probably Warmoth my project with a local tech or have Stambaugh build it.

ive really liked the ri's and the custom shops. i just dont think finding a great 4 is that tough. i lot of the things people see as upgrades like the flatter radius,i hate.

[Zanderwestcoast]

Seeing as it seems to be very difficult to find any decent quality, well recorded samples of some of the J basses we have discussed, I decided to post this link I found...

Some of you may have seen it... What I like is that they actually took the time to record the Suhr bass properly through some quality gear ie: Neumann mics and Neve pre's....playing the same bass lines for both active and passive so you can have a accurate comparison.

I have never been a big fan of active basses, particularly modern vintage J types as I have always felt too often the added active circuit can impart too strong a change in the natural tone and charachter of the instrument. It is interesting to hear this comparision....to my ears I much prefer the fullness, roundness and detail the passive mode clearly demonstrates over the active mode. The active might have some advantages when it comes to quick, fast phrasing as it is a more compressed, even sound, however to my ears, it just doesn't sound as good. Compression can easily be added later.

SUHR Classic J Bass (HSO Test Drive Episode 01) - YouTube

[gimmeagig]

Check out this Suhr clip.Definitely not pre CBS but I like it!!!
Adriano Campagnani- Suhr Guitars-"Slap"2 - YouTube

[narud]

fwiw heres a clip of nordy 5 active and flat
http://soundcloud.com/joe-duran/nordy-5#play
and my 62 flat
http://soundcloud.com/joe-duran/62-jazz

[pedulla1]

I'm not a jazz bass expert but I've heard great sounding Xotic basses youtube. Where does this fit amongst the others?

[kraigg007]

Originally Posted by droskobass

In my opinion, Lulls are the most playable instruments on earth in terms of weight, balance, and fingerboard/neck design. Mike also intentionally makes them sound like pre CBS or even 70's fenders.

Mike Lull an Vinny Coppolo still touch every single instrument that they make and they only make about 200-300 basses a year... This may determine these basses' "vintage" value in the future. (just like a pre EB Musicman, a pre gibson Tobias or a modern MTD...)

I am pretty sure Jimmy makes significantly less than 200 basses a year. I am unsure how many Mike Lull makes but I only heard great things about them. It should be noted that Carey Nordstrand only makes 20 - 30 basses per year. Now that is limited and with the quality he produces, could equate to higher values in the future.

As far as collectibility I feel Fender Basses are likes Topps Baseball cards. They were the only real option back in the day then when the Upper Decks, Fleers, and Donruss' flooded the market there were so many option there may never be any true vintage valuable cards post 1976. With that said there is no doubt that the Roger Sadowsky's, Vinnie Foderas, Jimmy Coppolos, Mike Tobias, Carey Nordstrands, Mike Lulls, Ken Smiths, and others are making top quality instruments that will stand the test of time, but will they be vintage. Who knows. I would say supply and demand, build quality, production totals, and of course tone and playability will be huge factors in the future of these instruments and their value.

Bottom line play what you like. If you love it other may as well and the end result could be increased values in the future. But if that day never comes at least you still have a bass you truly enjoy!

Current owner of a Sadowsky 5, Nordy VJ5 Classic, and Carvin SB5000. But I have owned them all including more than 8 pre-cbs fender basses and I've owned all the big names except Mike Lull, but he's on the list.

[vintager]

Gil Yaron, Bravewood

[Joelc73]

If I was interested in finding a new vintage sounding bass, an Alleva Coppolo LG would be at the top of a very short list. There are a lot of great J style basses out there -- but for someone looking for that pre-CBS vibe, the AC LG's are the best I've found.

The other J style basses that I absolutely love are Sadowsky NYCs. They aren't particularly vintage sounding at all (that's not Roger's design goal) -- but they are amazing in every other way.

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by pedulla1

I'm not a jazz bass expert but I've heard great sounding Xotic basses youtube. Where does this fit amongst the others?

The Xotic J bass is definitely right up there with the more established boutique J bass builders on the market today.







Xotic endorser.

[jumbodbassman]

no prices on the website. where do these basses price out in relation to other boutique shps?

[bigsnack]

Awesome comparison, thanks! The Fender sounds a pinch more "pillowy" in the low end, but the difference is minuscule to my ears.

[Modern Growl]

Originally Posted by droskobass

In my opinion, Lulls are the most playable instruments on earth in terms of weight, balance, and fingerboard/neck design. Mike also intentionally makes them sound like pre CBS or even 70's fenders.

Mike Lull an Vinny Coppolo still touch every single instrument that they make and they only make about 200-300 basses a year... This may determine these basses' "vintage" value in the future. (just like a pre EB Musicman, a pre gibson Tobias or a modern MTD...)

My problem with Lull is his basses are very much a "parts" bass - almost Warmoth like. He uses 3rd party parts and assembles them.

Nordy/Sadowsky/Alleva Coppolo on the other hand have their own spec preamps and their own spec pickups. Jimmy and Nordstrand actually wind their own pickups.

I respect that.

Lull - not so much.

[ghoulbug]

Originally Posted by narud

ive really liked the ri's and the custom shops. i just dont think finding a great 4 is that tough. i lot of the things people see as upgrades like the flatter radius,i hate.

I see.. well and then there's John Suhr, whose bass works I've only started reading about recently.
A boutique builder who's put on hold his 5-string and modern style plans for over half a decade now. Sounds like he really wants to be faithful to the classics (though not in the same vein as A-Coppolo)/ He seems to be up your alley, Narud. Have you considered him for your builds before?

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by CliffD

Wow...70s fender jazz basses must be crap....

Nope, its just that Fender had serious quality control issues during that era. I've played some great 70's Fender J's and some not so great ones. The not so great ones do seem to be in the majority. The thing they have going for them is if they were built right you have a highly resonant dried out piece of forty year old wood there. Would I consider buying one if I had money to burn? Only if I could play it a lot first. I would buy a verified pre-cbs stock J sight unseen from a reputable source.

[narud]

Originally Posted by ghoulbug

I see.. well and then there's John Suhr, whose bass works I've only started reading about recently.
A boutique builder who's put on hold his 5-string and modern style plans for over half a decade now. Sounds like he really wants to be faithful to the classics (though not in the same vein as A-Coppolo)/ He seems to be up your alley, Narud. Have you considered him for your builds before?

if i was buying a strat id get a suhr. some of my favorite guitar players use em and jimmy and carey seemed to have really learned a lot from him. im done buying boutique though. ive got my 5's covered and for 4's im fender all the way!

[MixBass]

The good news is there are plenty of 4J's that are fantastic. It then depends on nitpicky
prefs i.e. radius, fretwire etc. I am positive you can find a nice resonant body and speedy neck on any of the brands mentioned. If it is tough to get your hands on several to try my best advice is keep a keen eye here as many good buys come around. If you're patient you will be able to find most of these at an almost to no-lose price. Try it, don't like it, sell it and try again. I've been through many a bass now that way and am very happy with the results. I have a good 65 J, and picked up a Nash that is all things considered a better bass, and obviously much more relaxed to throw in the car and leave on a bandstand at a gig. If you're patient you will most likely land a keeper at less than a new price, even if you pay shipping a few times flipping other basses. Have fun!

[78Jazzlover]

Originally Posted by narud

fwiw heres a clip of nordy 5 active and flat
http://soundcloud.com/joe-duran/nordy-5#play
and my 62 flat
http://soundcloud.com/joe-duran/62-jazz

Ya, since you brought it up here I have to say that this is not really a fair comparison to other brands unless you've owned them and put on the same strings, had the same pup heights exactly, same kind of bridge ( no brass or aluminum) and same action/set up/string tension. For instance, have you owned a Coppolo or Suhr and done the same? Lull? Sad UV? etc. You may find out that it might come closer than you think from just playing it in a store or at a show or a friend's.
Also, to my ear I can hear a more pristine/modern high end on the Nordy , whether its the pups or something else. Maybe because its active. I wouldent favor that on a vintage sounding Fender style bass. It might be that in the clips you are "pinching" or "popping" the notes so much it just takes over the natural tone of the basses. I actually think the AC clips are cleaner to the tone of the basses. Xotic clips also.

[narud]

Originally Posted by 78Jazzlover

Ya, since you brought it up here I have to say that this is not really a fair comparison to other brands unless you've owned them and put on the same strings, had the same pup heights exactly, same kind of bridge ( no brass or aluminum) and same action/set up/string tension. For instance, have you owned a Coppolo or Suhr and done the same? Lull? Sad UV? etc. You may find out that it might come closer than you think from just playing it in a store or at a show or a friend's.
Also, to my ear I can hear a more pristine/modern high end on the Nordy , whether its the pups or something else. Maybe because its active. I wouldent favor that on a vintage sounding Fender style bass. It might be that in the clips you are "pinching" or "popping" the notes so much it just takes over the natural tone of the basses. I actually think the AC clips are cleaner to the tone of the basses. Xotic clips also.

ive spent a lot of time in jimmys shop trying out basses. having them set up. taking in strings and putting them etc. taken in vintage basses into the shops and compared. in the end the two basses that fit the criteria were my f bass 70's vf5 (sounded more like my 78 jazz than the lm5's or carey's 70's vj5. and this nordy. have you listened to the clips of the lg that ac put on their soundcloud page? what do think of those? i play with low action and play hard and pop the notes. my old basses do the same thing.

i have also owned lulls and sadowsky's. no suhrs.

[78Jazzlover]

Originally Posted by narud

ive spent a lot of time in jimmys shop trying out basses. having them set up. taking in strings and putting them etc. taken in vintage basses into the shops and compared. in the end the two basses that fit the criteria were my f bass 70's vf5 (sounded more like my 78 jazz than the lm5's or carey's 70's vj5. and this nordy. have you listened to the clips of the lg that ac put on their soundcloud page? what do think of those? i play with low action and play hard and pop the notes. my old basses do the same thing.

i have also owned lulls and sadowsky's. no suhrs.

Well, different players= different ears and opinions, and thats totally cool as far as I'm concerned. I've done a lot of comparing myself and I know not to expect to find the definitive answer for anyone else. I listened to all AC clips and Vids, I liked them and thought the basses sounded good generally, and the LG sounded very good. I've tried Nordies and while they are a great bass not as vintage to my ear. Fs are cool, and Suhr ( Sadowsky is something else AFAIK).

The clips do sound in the same ball park, I would have much preferred to hear passive to passive in this case and just for tonal comparisons just relaxed on the attack so we can hear the purer tone of the basses.