Is a beat up 1973 Fender P Bass Worth $2399 if...

[taurus1]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

So reducing neck dive isn't an improvement?
Reducing the risk of neck warps isn't an improvement?
Reducing hum and buzz isn't an improvement?

And god forbid I start the "not everything vintage is good" routine. How horrible of me. I forgot that everything vintage is holy, and perfect, and forged by the hands of mystical fairy elf angels.

I can't believe your arrogance.
I have three 70's Precisions, none of them have neck dive, warped necks or hum and buzz.
one of the three is really heavy, but it's still perfectly balanced.
you actually believe you've improved Leo Fenders creation?
this forum blows my mind

to answer the op, if it feels right, it's worth it.

[thebrain]

I think most every "antique" out there has a modern equivalent that has improved over the years (either that or they've become obsolete). But that doesn't mean the value of antiques lies in the how they function compared to late models of the same thing. Most antiques would be worthless if that's how value was determined. But the value lies in the nostalgia, collectibility, and availability, among other factors.

Sure, a state of the art modern bass is probably more bang for your buck as far as functionality goes. But that doesn't really have anything to do with the value of the vintage instruments. I like vintage basses because of the worn in feel of them. And a good vintage bass that still has strong electronics does sound different than the modern reissues. They may be close, but I can still hear a difference.

I collect WW2 pistols. I have a couple reissues that are better quality, fit and finish, and were cheaper than my vintage pistols of the same model. But my reissues weren't carried in combat. They weren't made by American women in factories that were previously sewing machine and railroad signal factories before the war. They weren't made for the purpose of fighting against Hitler or the Japanese to ensure our freedom. They don't have the patina from being carried through hell and back. They don't have that history or the importance.

I for one would be very very sad if those factors didn't mean anything and their value was just determined by how they compare to the newer models. Thankfully that's not the case. It's their history and the point in time that they were made that makes them valuable. I don't see vintage guitars or any other antiques being much different.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by taurus1

I can't believe your arrogance.

Believe it.

Originally Posted by taurus1

I have three 70's Precisions, none of them have neck dive, warped necks or hum and buzz. one of the three is really heavy, but it's still perfectly balanced.

There are different degrees of neck dive. But most vintage Fenders suffer from it. However, the 70s Fenders have less of it since the bodies are typically boat anchors. So the end result is a bass that is "really heavy", just like yours. No thanks.

Originally Posted by taurus1

you actually believe you've improved Leo Fenders creation?

Nope. I didn't invent lightweight tuners, graphite reinforced necks, proper shielding, etc. Leo was a genius and created some fantastic designs. But over the past several decades there have been (big surprise) several improvements made. I just incorporate them all into the instruments I make (now for myself only).

[Spinal Tapper]

My 75 P is the nicest playing Precision bass I've played. The action is dead low, the neck is perfectly straight, and it sounds awesome. But I don't think it's worth close to $2399. MAYBE $1700 (except for the obvious Jazz route that lowers the value). And if someone offered to swap mine with any current Custom Shop Fender or similar bass, there's no way I'd go for it.

To each his own.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by narud

this is what you dont seem to understand. people who like old fenders like them because they like them. not because theyve espoused some mythical set of virtues via fairy dust to them. its as simple as that. i dont have neck dive issues, noise issues, or warping issues that modern fenders or some "boutique"dont have.

let what you make stand for what it is. youre not going to change the minds of people who like old fenders to think youre making a better instrument. youre not. i dont see anywhere near the negativity posted about valenti's here, but i also dont see him thread crapping.

Punctuation and capitalization: they are your friends. Makes text easier to read.

Anyway, I couldn't care less whether people think I'm making a better instrument (I am). My basses are for me. I'm simply using improvements that are now common in the industry. Even Fender is now using them. Anyone can now enjoy a bass that is superior to vintage Fenders and costs a fraction of the price.

Of course you are free to like what you like. Never said you couldn't.

[autodidact]

Originally Posted by taurus1

...you actually believe you've improved Leo Fenders creation?
this forum blows my mind

to answer the op, if it feels right, it's worth it.

Not to start a big thing about this but just because Leo was the first person to make the Precision doesn't mean that it was perfect. Improvements (subjective or otherwise) can be made to just about everything, this specifically applies to original ideas.

The Precision bass is a hell of an instrument, I own 3 and its all I play. But I can garauntee that if you took Leo's original creation there would be tremendous room for improvement.

I doubt the original P had a butter smooth set up.
The single coil pup hummed
It was a heavy slab IIRC

Who wouldn't want a more comfortable, white noise free, easily playable bass?

Dans answers are not arrogance, they're simply his opinion on what are improvements. A lot of people would side with him, I for instance don't want to play a 12 pound bass that's as noisy when I'm not playing as when I am. To me, those things are improvements that Leo didn't make initially and it just goes to show that things can always get better, nothing is perfect

[narud]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

Punctuation and capitalization: they are your friends. Makes text easier to read.

Anyway, I couldn't care less whether people think I'm making a better instrument (I am). My basses are for me. I'm simply using improvements that are now common in the industry. Even Fender is now using them. Anyone can now enjoy a bass that is superior to vintage Fenders and costs a fraction of the price.

Of course you are free to like what you like. Never said you couldn't.

Except you, when you pop into vintage threads essentially intimating to people that they're wasting their money.

If you didn't care what people thought, you wouldn't be in these threads. You're not fooling anyone.

Ps- you can thank the iPhone for the capitalization!

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by narud

If you didn't care what people thought, you wouldn't be in these threads. You're not fooling anyone.

Just sharing my opinions, like everyone else. I guess by your logic you must care what I think, or you wouldn't be in these threads.

I honestly, truly could not care less whether people think the basses I make for my own personal use are better than vintage Fenders. However, I do care whether people understand the truth that improvements have been made to Leo's design, and these improvements are available to them. I also want to do my part to dispel the myths surrounding vintage Fenders. Just like you want to dispel the myth that all 70's Fenders are garbage, I want to dispel the myth that just because a bass is old means it is magic.

[taurus1]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

Believe it.



There are different degrees of neck dive. But most vintage Fenders suffer from it. However, the 70s Fenders have less of it since the bodies are typically boat anchors. So the end result is a bass that is "really heavy", just like yours. No thanks.



Nope. I didn't invent lightweight tuners, graphite reinforced necks, proper shielding, etc. Leo was a genius and created some fantastic designs. But over the past several decades there have been (big surprise) several improvements made. I just incorporate them all into the instruments I make (now for myself only).

"improvements" is subjective, I don't buy your car salesman approach.

and "most Fenders" didn't suffer from neck dive

[narud]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

Just sharing my opinions, like everyone else. I guess by your logic you must care what I think, or you wouldn't be in these threads.

I honestly, truly could not care less whether people think the basses I make for my own personal use are better than vintage Fenders. However, I do care whether people understand the truth that improvements have been made to Leo's design, and these improvements are available to them. I also want to do my part to dispel the myths surrounding vintage Fenders. Just like you want to dispel the myth that all 70's Fenders are garbage, I want to dispel the myth that just because a bass is old means it is magic.

You sell guitars Dan. You're interests in convincing people that their money is better spent elsewhere has a cloud to it that the average poster's opinion doesn't.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by narud

You sell guitars Dan. You're interests in convincing people that their money is better spent elsewhere has a cloud to it that the average poster's opinion doesn't.

Sad Day. Atkinson closes shop.

Where have you been dude? And I've said over and over again in this thread the basses I make are for me only. That didn't give you a clue?

EDIT: And before you start with the predictable "You went out of business because nobody wanted your crappy basses", feel free to read the explanation on my home page: http://www.atkinsonbasses.com/

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by king_biscuit

Those type posts are generally not all that deep; more like I remember the 70s and Fenders sucked

Actually that could be pretty deep if you were alive and playing in the 70's.

You kids get off my lawn!

[narud]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

Sad Day. Atkinson closes shop.

Where have you been dude? And I've said over and over again in this thread the basses I make are for me only. That didn't give you a clue?

EDIT: And before you start with the predictable "You went out of business because nobody wanted your crappy basses", feel free to read the explanation on my home page: http://www.atkinsonbasses.com/

If you deliver basses with issues, people are going to have beef. Or you can call them bad apples and close shop!

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by narud

Except you, when you pop into vintage threads essentially intimating to people that they're wasting their money.

If you didn't care what people thought, you wouldn't be in these threads. You're not fooling anyone.

Ps- you can thank the iPhone for the capitalization!

I don't build basses, but I think people waste their money on '70s Fenders.

[Double E]

Originally Posted by narud

You sell guitars Dan. You're interests in convincing people that their money is better spent elsewhere has a cloud to it that the average poster's opinion doesn't.

Wow, don't you realize that your posts are far more antagonizing than anything Dan has posted, even in response to your biting comments?

I am appalled at the piling-on Dan for stating his opinion...seems like anyone who does not sing Kumbaya and hold hands gets a beat down.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by taurus1

I can't believe your arrogance.
I have three 70's Precisions, none of them have neck dive, warped necks or hum and buzz.
one of the three is really heavy, but it's still perfectly balanced.
you actually believe you've improved Leo Fenders creation?
this forum blows my mind

to answer the op, if it feels right, it's worth it.

A lot of builders have made improvements to Fenders. I have four Fenders and they're fine basses, but their fit and finish doesn't begin to compare to that of my Sadowsky and Lakland versions. The were a lot of crappy instruments built by Fender in the '70s and a lot of good ones, too. It's up to the buyer to distinguish whether the instrument he's considering is one or the other. To me, a '70s bass is a used bass, nothing more. Find your best '70s Fender Jazz Bass, and let's compare it in terms of playability, tone, fit and finish, electronics and every other aspect to my Metro UV70 and my JO5. Even the current Fender versions of their basses are an improvement over their earlier ones.

[depalm]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I don't build basses, but I think people waste their money on '70s Fenders.

Me too. I have two great 70's Ps (bought in the 80s) but my 2Ks P plays and sounds better.

U$2000,00 for a 70s Fender is risky, you can find a very nice instrument but most of the time they are just OK basses.

Better spend this money on Sads, Nordies…

[gurensan]

I'm not gonna jump in with more hurtful stuff, but after 26 years with a bass in my hand I definitely have an opinion.

I like the '70's Fender sound. I used to have a '74 Tele bass and a '78 fretless P. That said, I hate the U necks that passed for a C in that era. Too fat; my left hand fatigues something fierce when I play those. But I love the tone.

I have a 2007 Warwick Corvette fretless and a Squier VM Precision TB now. I love them both; they both sound and play awesome. Would I trade either for that bass? I might if the circumstances were right.

But neither of those basses ever carried a $2399 price tag. That bass is overpriced. If you like it and want to pay that much for it, then it's worth $2399. As for the rest here, the consensus is that it's too much.

(disclaimer: I paid $75 at a garage sale for my '74 Tele and $250 at a Music-Go-Round for the P)

[narud]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I don't build basses, but I think people waste their money on '70s Fenders.

pfft. i think people waste money on foderas. for real though, when people come in to every fodera thread and tell people theyre wasting their money and they should just buy a stambaugh or a bordwell or whatever instead, its major eye roll time.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by narud

pfft. i think people waste money on foderas. for real though, when people come in to every fodera thread and tell people theyre wasting their money and they should just buy a stambaugh or a bordwell or whatever instead, its major eye roll time.

It all boils down to taste, so to speak. I don't really care how much people spend on basses. I just try to spend my fair share.