The CGDA "Cello" Tuning, Tell Me About It....

[pklima]

Originally Posted by c_maj

I use 'cello tuning and have absolutely no problems, but it's more than likely b/c I've been playing the 'cello for years.

True, it gave me no problems also but I've been used to mandolin, mandola, mandocello, tenor banjo...

[khutch]

Originally Posted by c_maj

I use 'cello tuning and have absolutely no problems, but it's more than likely b/c I've been playing the 'cello for years.

I've never played a cello (though I might give it a try if I can ever learn to play in tune on a fretless bass!) but I cannot say that the switch from EADG to CGDA gave me any real problems. I decided to try the tuning while I was just sitting in at worship band rehearsals and 11 days after the switch I walk into the Thursday rehearsal and find out there is no other bass player available for Sunday so I am it! There is no time to relearn the material in the more familiar tuning so I went with CGDA and never looked back. Red Mitchell switched between EADG and CGDA in 9 days - on a double bass - but of course he was a real bassist of considerable talent. I'm just a hack so it took me 14 days

Really the only "trouble" is relearning material you already know and that is an annoyance more than a problem. Sometimes it is a bit humbling because yes some intervals are harder to play in fifths but of course others are easier. Those who have a lot of material in memory that they play very well in fourths are more likely to give up and go back to fourths than a hack like me who is just picking up the bass again after many years absence. I never have problems learning new material because I have nothing to compare it with, I just play the tuning I use.

I use the open strings frequently when they are available. So far I only play two "classical" pieces (both are Bach so they are Baroque actually) but they both flow very nicely with open strings so I wonder how you would finger them with fretted notes. On the other hand worship music has frequent key changes and you usually end up learning how to play with both fretted and open notes since you have to chase the song up the neck as it progresses.

Ken

[mp40smg]

Surprised nobody has mentioned this..
A lot of touchstyle (stick) instruments are tuned in 5ths in the bass and 4ts on the treble side.

It is just different. I don't find it better or worse, just different.

But, for a bass player, tending towards a bass role, I find 4ths better as it lends itself to more easily hitting and or holding the 3rds. Also, the intervals (for me) on 4ths tend to be easier to access as (3rds/ 7ths) 5ths tend to me more up the string than on the next string over.

[onosson]

I have used a similar tuning on guitar, CGDACE. I find it allows some really nice and unusual voicings, and have come to appreciate the 3rd intervals on the high strings especially.

Which gets me thinking - I wonder if a tuning based on minor 3rd intervals on bass might prove useful? Something like EGBbC#. I could see some potential applications with walking lines etc. - diminished scales would be incredibly easy! Might have to try it when I get home in a couple days.

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by mp40smg

Surprised nobody has mentioned this..
A lot of touchstyle (stick) instruments are tuned in 5ths in the bass and 4ts on the treble side.

It is just different. I don't find it better or worse, just different.

Really?

Post #14

Post #32

[TDSLaBassiste]

Originally Posted by c_maj

I use 'cello tuning and have absolutely no problems, but it's more than likely b/c I've been playing the 'cello for years.

Because my church needed a bass player, I went from playing 'cello on one Sunday, to playing bass the next Sunday with absolutely rehearsals or time to get used to "standard" bass tuning. I tried it, but it was actually harder for me to play bass tuned EADG b/c I'm so acclimated to CGDA's placement of notes and patterns.

As for relying a lot on open strings with 'cello tuning - I don't. Don't know why, but on the 'cello I avoid open strings and I still do with the bass. I spend a lot of my time more in 2nd and 3rd positions and tend to only drop to 1st when I'm going to play anything F# and lower.

Is it difficult for me playing different genres? Not at all. Within Christian music I've played traditional, gospel, latino, rock, and country to name a few, but haven't experienced any particular difficulties within them. But again, I attribute it to the fact that I've played 'cello for so long that I instinctively know where notes are and can quite easily mimic what I hear.

To account for down-tuned E string floppiness, I use Ernie Ball slinkies, where the E is .110, and had my truss adjusted accordingly - so everything is peachy for ME.

So, I don't know if this post is of any help to you, but I just wanted to chime in to tell of my experience with my 'cello tuning.

I've been playing with it for a few days now and I'm getting used to the patterns and it's pretty fun. The only thing that doesn't work for me is trying to play familiar patterns. If I tried to play a walking bass line on this, I'd go crazy.

[c_maj]

Originally Posted by khutch

I've never played a cello (though I might give it a try if I can ever learn to play in tune on a fretless bass!) but I cannot say that the switch from EADG to CGDA gave me any real problems. I decided to try the tuning while I was just sitting in at worship band rehearsals and 11 days after the switch I walk into the Thursday rehearsal and find out there is no other bass player available for Sunday so I am it! There is no time to relearn the material in the more familiar tuning so I went with CGDA and never looked back. Red Mitchell switched between EADG and CGDA in 9 days - on a double bass - but of course he was a real bassist of considerable talent. I'm just a hack so it took me 14 days

Really the only "trouble" is relearning material you already know and that is an annoyance more than a problem. Sometimes it is a bit humbling because yes some intervals are harder to play in fifths but of course others are easier. Those who have a lot of material in memory that they play very well in fourths are more likely to give up and go back to fourths than a hack like me who is just picking up the bass again after many years absence. I never have problems learning new material because I have nothing to compare it with, I just play the tuning I use.

I use the open strings frequently when they are available. So far I only play two "classical" pieces (both are Bach so they are Baroque actually) but they both flow very nicely with open strings so I wonder how you would finger them with fretted notes. On the other hand worship music has frequent key changes and you usually end up learning how to play with both fretted and open notes since you have to chase the song up the neck as it progresses.

Ken

My apologies - my statement about "no problems" wasn't meant to be snarky to you (or anyone else who has replied to my comment), so if I came off as flippant it wasn't my intention. It's just that the majority of comments in other threads I've read regarding 'cello tuning have been somewhat negative. One person said, "It's the worst", another said "Why not just get a 5-er". One person (to my face) went so far as to tell me that I wasn't "really playing the bass with tuning like that." Um... seriously?

So, my intent was to - in answering your question "Tell Me About It" - was say that 'cello tuning on a bass is VERY doable, no matter the genre.

But you're right, I'm sure it can be frustrating to those that are comfortable playing songs with EADG tuning and changing to CGDA. I was in the opposite situation. I literally went from playing 'cello one Sunday to being asked to play bass the next Sunday on a permanent basis. Trying to play songs I was already familiar with on EADG tuning straight off the cuff was certainly *challenging*, so I HAD to go to 'cello tuning to make it through the service.

But it sounds like you're certainly NOT a hack. The fact that you stuck with it and learned it in 14 days is impressive. If anything, I'm the hack - I tried EADG tuning maybe twice - and completely closed my mind to it.

But the great thing is, with the exception of the low B, we have a greater range than a 5-er.

[khutch]

I didn't think you were being snarky at all, I was just saying that someone with no cello experience can adapt to the tuning quickly too. All you really have to do is to learn one new string and remember that the other three are upside down now! Plus I had only recently started sitting in with the worship band and was learning completely new songs pretty much every week. If I had constantly been in the mode of trying to play familiar material in the new tuning it might have been more difficult and frustrating. There sometimes is an advantage to being a hack, and a hack I am!

I liked the CGDA tuning pretty much immediately. I'm not sure why really but it just spoke to me somehow. Bass guitar is the only stringed instrument I have ever played so it wasn't a similarity to another instrument in my case. I had been struggling to get comfortable with a five string BEADG and going back to a four string CDGA was like turning a light on. You are right, slightly more range with four strings is a good deal indeed. I can't say that I miss the low B. I have recently gotten a Reggie Hamilton Jazz that has a Hipshot detuner on the C string and I set it up to go between C and the A below so I could have a low B if I ever really needed it.

I agree, CGDA is a great tuning for an electric bass.

Ken

[jmclearnon]

I'm going to do this when i get home with my frankinstein-fretless...... I might even put some of my old cello string on to see what it sounds like. tbh playing guitar music on the cello can be VERY difficult especially if trying to play joe satriani lol. Tbh i think you could probably do thumb position on the bass if you practise a bit. BTW it really hurts on cello for the first 2 years lol

[khutch]

Originally Posted by c_maj

As for relying a lot on open strings with 'cello tuning - I don't. Don't know why, but on the 'cello I avoid open strings and I still do with the bass. I spend a lot of my time more in 2nd and 3rd positions and tend to only drop to 1st when I'm going to play anything F# and lower.

Apparently this is not a universal strategy among cellists. I was at the Chicago Music of the Baroque Holiday Brass and Choral concert last night. For some reason the "brass" ensemble included a lone cello for the first time last year and again this year. We were in the second row and the instruments were arranged in row "zero" with the cellist only about 10 feet from us so I had an excellent view of his hands as he played. He obviously used open strings a lot, as much as I do. There were many times when he played several notes in a row on open strings in fact, which is something I have not yet been able to do.

I tend to use open strings any time they make the fingering easier. When I first started playing bass again I did avoid them but somewhere along the line I got completely comfortable with them and without making a conscious effort to do that. I love to have a measure or more on an open string just before or after a page turn because I can pedal on the open note with my right hand while I flip the page with my left. I notice that in symphony orchestras the first chair players generally use the second chairs as page turners. I guess I need a second chair bassist!

Ken

[Ben Rose]

There is a bassist in Los Angeles, Ari Bennett, who plays in 5ths tuning. Or at least he did 10 years ago. He could really get around on it too.

[khutch]

Anyone who has followed this thread may be interested to know that there is now a Fifths Tuning Club in the General Instruction area. I appreciate all the comments that have been made here but I would suggest that anything new be posted there to keep everything relevant in one place where newcomers can more easily find it.

Ken