The Church of Dan Atkinson / The Wood Doesn't Matter Club

[Blue_Whistle88]

I think wood matters quite a bit for structural integrity, and general durability of the instrument (though that more involves wood quality than wood type I suppose), but in terms of tone I'd agree, it makes nearly no difference on an electric instrument. In order for pickup placement and type to be so significant, I imagine that one is dealing with a different league of subtlties.

Put me down as a member, if only to promote the idea of any given musician's capabilities being always more significant than the equipment they're using. I've never played a bass that couldn't sound and feel great with a new set of strings and a good setup, unless there was something fundamentally wrong/broken (and now we're talking construction quality, surprise surprise, another HUMAN component).

[MEKer]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

Yup exactly. I have always had multiples of the same bass, on paper supposed to be the same body and neck wood, I still do. And when you pick them up and play wether acoustically or plugged in...by golly, you hear the differences.

That might be more the mechanics of the stress on the individual woods as the electric bass is played, rather than the "tone" any certain type of wood "gives" or contributes. To me, any miniscule portion that could be relegated in any way to "tone" wood would be completely swallowed up by all the other factors. I only view the wood as beauty (unless painted) added to the instrument. I still think the wood "effect"--if any--cannot catch up to light speed of electronics. But also I think the stresses and construction relative to the strings are the overall, initial starting block for the sound when the string(s) is/are touched with whatever force is used (which could itself alter the tone). Then all the follow-on electronics and location conditions can effect what is heard as to tone.

So species of wood make tone?---not for me. But everyone can believe what they want and who really cares?

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Sorry guys- "cambo" was Bassflute, a previously banned member who was beyond fanatical about his beliefs. So much so that he tried posting again under an ancient account just to try to insult Dan. Some people need lives.....

[sven kalmar]

when i bought my roadworn P, they had two roadworns. one red and one sb. This shop has been specializing in building and setting up stuff for years. Still these two instruments sounde TOTALLT different. Mine the red one rich, vibrant, sweet. The other was dark, rather dead sounding. Same strings, both nice setup. Both being alder/onepiece maple necks. I think how they vibrate together..are they in tune?
nice thread. i learn alot from this place.thanks!

[vishuddha]

Which arbitrary bass production factor is best for metal?

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by sven kalmar

when i bought my roadworn P, they had two roadworns. one red and one sb. This shop has been specializing in building and setting up stuff for years. Still these two instruments sounde TOTALLT different. Mine the red one rich, vibrant, sweet. The other was dark, rather dead sounding. Same strings, both nice setup. Both being alder/onepiece maple necks. I think how they vibrate together..are they in tune?
nice thread. i learn alot from this place.thanks!

Well, they might have been the same brand of strings, but unless you put the exact same set of strings on each bass you aren't getting an accurate comparison. The strings on the sunburst might have been older, more dead, etc.

Then again, it might have been a really bad piece of wood on the body or neck. I've come across them myself. It's a crapshoot. While wood can sometimes impact tone, usually it is VERY subtle, and there is very little predictability in tone between wood species, and even wood blanks of the same species. The purpose of my threads has been to show people there is very little point in seeking out specific wood species to achieve a certain tone. Best thing you can do is go play a bunch of basses, ignore what they're made of, and see which pleases your ears the most.

[preside]

Dan, I agree, play a bunch of basses and buy what sounds best. That being said I feel wood matters a LOT in the sound of an electric bass. I have never walked into a store and said "show me all of your Alder basses" I just start playing them till I find one that looks and sounds right FOR ME. I missed the test you did but was the format Mp3? If it was well a cardboard box would sound like maple on that crappy format. Thanks for ruining music iTunes.

[BulbousMoses]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but even 2 so-called identical basses may have differences that we can't even see. For instance, do the pickups in both basses have an identical number of winds? How do you know? Assumption? Unless you unwind each pickup, counting the winds as you do so to confirm, it's possible (although not likely) that there is a discrepancy in the wind count that could account for a difference in tone. I guess what I'm saying is that unless you COMPLETELY reverse engineer both basses, you'll be making some assumptions and educated guesses as to what makes them sound different.

[dvh]

Wood does matter a lot. But not in a consistent predictable way. Then there are all the other factors contributing to tone. That's why wood DOESN'T matter in the selection of a bass (notwithstanding aesthetics and weight).

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by preside

Dan, I agree, play a bunch of basses and buy what sounds best. That being said I feel wood matters a LOT in the sound of an electric bass. I have never walked into a store and said "show me all of your Alder basses" I just start playing them till I find one that looks and sounds right FOR ME. I missed the test you did but was the format Mp3? If it was well a cardboard box would sound like maple on that crappy format. Thanks for ruining music iTunes.

My clips were always 320Kbps MP3. You can't tell the difference between that and lossless audio. If you insist you can, I'll be glad to post a comparison test. I'll rip a CD to FLAC and MP3. Then I'll convert the MP3 to FLAC and post both FLAC files, and we'll see if you can identify which was MP3 first.

[danroche]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

My clips were always 320Kbps MP3. You can't tell the difference between that and lossless audio. If you insist you can, I'll be glad to post a comparison test. I'll rip a CD to FLAC and MP3. Then I'll convert the MP3 to FLAC and post both FLAC files, and we'll see if you can identify which was MP3 first.

Careful there Dan - what you just said is enough to get you banned from at least five audiophile forums I know of. People will respond to your blind test challenge with a thousand anecdotal accounts, ill-fitting analogies, and misunderstandings as to how bit depth and lossy compression work. Tread lightly.

[ACNick]

Originally Posted by BulbousMoses

Not sure if anyone has mentioned this but even 2 so-called identical basses may have differences that we can't even see. For instance, do the pickups in both basses have an identical number of winds? How do you know? Assumption? Unless you unwind each pickup, counting the winds as you do so to confirm, it's possible (although not likely) that there is a discrepancy in the wind count that could account for a difference in tone. I guess what I'm saying is that unless you COMPLETELY reverse engineer both basses, you'll be making some assumptions and educated guesses as to what makes them sound different.

I would hope that whatever tests were run, the same pickups, bridge, strings, etc. were used on all the subject so the only variable was the wood.

[Febs]

Originally Posted by danroche

People will respond to your blind test challenge with a thousand anecdotal accounts, ill-fitting analogies, and misunderstandings as to how bit depth and lossy compression work.

You left out, "accusations that your hearing is damaged."

[BulbousMoses]

Originally Posted by ACNick

I would hope that whatever tests were run, the same pickups, bridge, strings, etc. were used on all the subject so the only variable was the wood.

I'm talking more to the poeple who post stating that they have two 2012 Fender MIA J basses..blah blah blah...bought on the same day..etc. My post wasn't really directed at Dan specifically.

[fuzzychaos]

Originally Posted by danroche

Careful there Dan - what you just said is enough to get you banned from at least five audiophile forums I know of. People will respond to your blind test challenge with a thousand anecdotal accounts, ill-fitting analogies, and misunderstandings as to how bit depth and lossy compression work. Tread lightly.

Yeah every audiophile knows that what really affects the sound are wooden knobs. Actually that might be the clincher for this argument, we need to try different types of wooden knobs on a bass, surely that will affect the tone.

[GBassNorth]

Wow, nearly 2 years later and this thread is still alive! I guess that proves it, WOOD DOES MATTER.

At the very least it increases the sustain of the argument and to a degree even changes the tone and volume of the argument.

So even if you can't tell a difference in how the wood impacts your bass, you should be able to tell how the mention of it impacts the discussion about your bass.

Seriously, I think I read somewhere on TB that Dan is no longer making instruments. If that's true I hope these discussions aren't the reason why. Dan's a stand up guy and although I don't agree with everything he's said on wood he does/did make a darn nice instrument at a very decent price and has a lot of good advice on other bass related topics.

Happy New Year to all.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by GBassNorth

Seriously, I think I read somewhere on TB that Dan is no longer making instruments. If that's true I hope these discussions aren't the reason why. Dan's a stand up guy and although I don't agree with everything he's said on wood he does/did make a darn nice instrument at a very decent price and has a lot of good advice on other bass related topics.

No, I simply got tired of dealing with the public. Most customers were great. Some....not so much. Like my final customer who wanted to return his custom J bass because it ended up being 8.8 pounds instead of the 8.5 pounds he was hoping for.

[danroche]

Originally Posted by Febs

You left out, "accusations that your hearing is damaged."

What I DID forget was "unbelievably condescending statements of smug self satisfaction that at least THEY still care about sound quality, and patronizing statements of hope that someday the other party can accumulate enough high-ticket hardware to finally APPRECIATE music for the first time in their lives."

And wow - just TYPING that made me hate myself a little.

[BulbousMoses]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

No, I simply got tired of dealing with the public. Most customers were great. Some....not so much. Like my final customer who wanted to return his custom J bass because it ended up being 8.8 pounds instead of the 8.5 pounds he was hoping for.

Really? Wow...I have no words for that...well, I do, but using them here will get me banned.

[dvh]

Originally Posted by fuzzychaos

Yeah every audiophile knows that what really affects the sound are wooden knobs. Actually that might be the clincher for this argument, we need to try different types of wooden knobs on a bass, surely that will affect the tone.

And, how tightly one grips the neck or how much contact there is with the player's belly