Club F-Bass (Part III)

[Tom7]

Actually, I think a candy apple red bass with a lime green headstock would look really cool! You see red and green together all the time both in nature and in man's world, those colors certainly go together, and a bass with that design would be making a statement not unlike Kevin Linday's with his upcoming paisley patterned Nordy bass.

I think your best point is this:

Originally Posted by GRoberts

My eyes gravitate to things that visually flow and blend together as if they were made by the same designer. It's that simple for me.

That is a good point and it is exactly what I was saying as well when I wrote,

Originally Posted by Tom7

Then, the only conversion wouldn't be whether or not ramps diminished the visual appeal of a bass, but whether some ramps were stylized better than others...

If all basses had ramps, then we'd just be talking about whether or not we liked how they were done... just as we talk about chrome vs. wood knobs, or different styles of bridges.

The difference is, most bassists (myself included) feel ramps are optional whereas a bridge isn't. Consequently, if we prefer the look of a particular bass without the ramp, we can OPT out on it.

But if all basses had to have ramps, we'd be talking in terms of "visually flowing and blending together as if they were made by the same designer."

Speaking of the same designer, my ramp wasn't an after thought. It was designed by George for that bass, and at my request, made as wide as the pickups so that my fingers wouldn't hit the corners of the ramp, like they do on my BN6 ramp.

I get that people prefer the look of my AC6 without the ramp, I do too.

What I don't get is how you can dislike my ebony finger ramp for being a big block of black wood that is covering up a beautiful top and looks out of place, and yet say you like this:



That does the same thing and looks just as horrible, doesn't it?

If anything, mine looks more awkward because the finger board and the pick up are not the same width, but that's it.

Most bassist prefer the look of a bass without a ramp because the ramp covers more pleasing aesthetics like nicer wood, and because they are not accustomed to seeing basses with ramps.

Hence the appeal of plexi ramps.

Frankly, from normal distances, almost no one, including other bass players, notice them.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by Tom7

Actually, Vic, I think we mostly agree...
Where we totally disagree though, is on a topic that hasn't been brought up until you did just now... the "ramps are a crutch" thing.
<long discussion of right vs wrong and all the different great players' techniques clipped>

Well, I only threw that out as a thought for consideration, but even said I didn't feel that strongly about it, just that I could see how someone could, because it's basically just a tool to help you govern finger motion. One could argue it's not necessary if your right hand technique were good and consistent enough to not need it.

I also didn't want to get into a long philosophical discussion of right and wrong, because we all well know that's a bottomless pit of subjective content. That's why I said I personally felt they're more just a personal pref thing. That was a specific attempt to avoid seeming down on them and/or spiraling out of control on right/wrong/personalprefs and getting horribly derailed from the specific point at hand, ramps.

Anyway, FWIW.

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by Vic

Well, I only threw that out as a thought for consideration, but even said I didn't feel that strongly about it, just that I could see how someone could, because it's basically just a tool to help you govern finger motion. One could argue it's not necessary if your right hand technique were good and consistent enough to not need it.

I also didn't want to get into a long philosophical discussion of right and wrong, because we all well know that's a bottomless pit of subjective content. That's why I said I personally felt they're more just a personal pref thing. That was a specific attempt to avoid seeming down on them and/or spiraling out of control on right/wrong/personalprefs and getting horribly derailed from the specific point at hand, ramps.

Anyway, FWIW.

Vic,

(1) After I posted that, I realized what I wrote may seem directed at you, rather than a philosophical discussion, which is what I was doing, so I went back and added a quick note in the long post.

You may have missed that addition if you read the post before I put it there, or it could have gotten lost in the extreme length of the post.

But trust me, although you were quoted in the post, it was NOT directed at you.

(2) I'm sorry, but I have no idea what "FWIW" is.

(3) Like you, I think it is a slippery slope when people start talking in terms of right and wrong...

But that includes telling bassists that the reason they prefer ramps is because they have poor and inconsistent right hand technique. I have no doubt that is true in many cases, but I am certain it is not in the case of Hadrien Feraud, Dominque Di Piazza, and many others. In other words, you are right in that once again, a statement of "right" and "wrong" ends up being yet another subjective assessment because some players have different aims for their right hand techniques than others.

(4) By the way, I'm going to vanish from this discussion for the day and it has nothing to do with the discussion.

I'm supposed to be presenting a business plan in a few hours and I haven't finished writing it.

Cheers!

[GRoberts]

Uncle.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by Tom7

(2) I'm sorry, but I have no idea what "FWIW" is.

"For Whatever It's Worth".

No problem on the rest. We're cool.

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by Vic

"For Whatever It's Worth".

No problem on the rest. We're cool.

Phew! I had to check in an peek to be sure. :-)

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Uncle.

[Laughing!] Sorry.

[rabster]

Mr. Hill was wondering how the flame was on the back of my bass so here's a photo. Me likey

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by rabster

Mr. Hill was wondering how the flame was on the back of my bass so here's a photo. Me likey

That makes 2 of us... at least!

[Bassflute]

and Honda pickups...nice!


Cheers,
Cameron

Originally Posted by Tom7

Actually, Vic, I think we mostly agree. For example, I wish *I* would have written,



That my point as well. In fact, you and I seem to agree 100% on the finger ramp discussion so far.

Where we totally disagree though, is on a topic that hasn't been brought up until you did just now... the "ramps are a crutch" thing.

NOTE: I realize that this is not how YOU feel, I'm talking about this in theoretical terms, not personal.

People tend to be down on things they are not up on, if you know what I mean.

Ramps are especially handy (no pun intended) when using a specific right hand technique that most bass players don't use, consequently, most bass players wouldn't get how great a finger ramp can be.

Whether or not you decide to incorporate the advice, here is a clip that EVERY bass player needs to see at least once. It is instruction from Gary Willis, who Matt Garrison and others credit with getting them going on finger ramps.

The Willis clip has nothing to do with finger ramps however, just right hand technique, but when you see the thinking behind what he is doing with his right hand, the whole ramp thing will probably make more sense.

There are a LOT of ways to play bass, and probably no "right" way of doing it.

Jaco played with 2 fingers, "walking," and never slapped. Was his way THE right way? Or A right way?

Victor Wooten does not use a ramp, and alternates between two walking fingers (a la Jaco), and a secondary technique where he uses the 2 fingers, plus up and down strokes with his thumb, and he is a brilliant bassist.

Alain Caron, like Vic, doesn't use a ramp and alternates between using 2 fingers, and a secondary technique of 3 fingers and a thumb in both an up and down motion.

In the ramp camp are guys like:

Gary Willis, who uses 3 fingers (and no thumb) and he is brilliant as well.

Hadrian Feraud, who alternates between 2 fingers (a la Jaco), and a secondary technique using 3 fingers and his thumb, like classical guitar players.

Dominique Di Piazza pretty much uses 1 technique, the classical guitar one Hadrian uses, however Dominique often uses a thumb pick like a banjo player.

And of course there is Matt Garrison who some how gets credited more often for the use of a ramp who alternates between the two techniques as well.

I don't see fault in any of the ways these guys approach the bass, and certainly would never label any as needing a crutch to play.

Besides, as I wrote before, the vast majority of bassists I've seen play, including Victor Wooten and Alain Caron, put their fingers over the pickups when they play, especially when they are really moving, playing with a defacto ramp anyway. This is yet another reason why BN5s, BN6s and AC6s are such great basses... their pickups are neatly tucked inside wood casings making them WIDER and giving us more "ramp" to play over.

Some people think ramps are about speed, but I disagree. Speed on tap can really be fun, but so can playing all night with a relaxed hand that isn't seizing up on you, or holding you back from playing things you are capable of playing with your left hand, were your right hand able to keep up.

Here is another clip, Dominique Di Piazza playing an Fbass VF5 with a finger ramp. The interesting thing about this clip for me is at 2:10 or so when he pauses to shake out his left hand, but keeps his right hand in place.

His right hand keeps up with his left in extremely complicated (not just fast) playing, and yet has been so relaxed and yet so effective, it isn't fatigued.

That kind of thing is appealing to a guy like me who has tendinitis in both hands and had his right hand surgically rebuilt due to multiple, severe basketball injuries.

With the 2 finger Jaco technique, biology makes it so that runs are much faster to execute going down than up. And you hear that all the time in bass, even with Jaco's playing.

The Dominique technique, however, lets us go up just as quickly.

Also, the 2 finger technique most of us use makes skipping strings a bit hard, consequently, the vast majority of us play bass with near contiguous notes, and not with the jumps you hear sax and piano players use. It's one of the reasons bass player solos tend to suck as well.

The Dominique technique, however, makes skipping 1 or 2 strings pretty much as easy as playing on the same string.

Two fingers made sense on a vertical bass, but when the bass was tilted like a guitar, then perhaps we all should have looked at the centuries of guitar and banjo playing for tips on how best for us to play the instrument.

Okay, that was long and maybe a bit impassioned, but hopefully it was an adequate defense for us finger ramp guys. I'm starting to feel a little ganged up on here (just a little, and in a polite way).

As Vic, Alain, Matt, Gary and Dominique have (hopefully) shown us, it's not that there is one "right" way to play the bass, it is that there are several acceptable ways of excelling at bass, many depending on your style of play.

[yinghock]

Hi there,

Here's my BN5 w/ one piece swamp ash Can I be 77?

yinghock

sorry but I don't know how to rotate them here...

[puff father]

F Basses sure are purty!!!

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by yinghock

Hi there,

Here's my BN5 w/ one piece swamp ash Can I be 77?

yinghock

sorry but I don't know how to rotate them here...
Attachment 134141

Attachment 134140

77 is yours!

This roster update, and break from finger ramp debates, is brought to you by yinghock of Singapore.

Puff Daddy is right, that is a pretty bass!

CLUB FBASS ROSTER
(Updated 20 July 2009)
#00 George_Furlanet

1. Quadzilla - BN4, BN5, ?
2. Tombowlus - BN4, BN5, VF5
3. Puff_father - BN5
4. Debassed - BNF5
5. ThumbyAche - BN5, GFC
6. brandonwong - BN6, BN6 custom, AC6, BNF5, BNF5(2), BN5 custom
7. Tom7 - AC6, BN5, BN6, VF5
8. Erick Lam - Vintage Fretless 5
9. knarleybass - BN5, BN6
10. Reefer - BN5, BN4?
11. VinceLovesF - BN5, AC5
12. T._Brookins - BN5
13. DKB - BN5
14. Speyer - BN6 (b)
15. jmilky - BN5
16. edel - BN5
17. administrator - BN5
18. Dave Hill - BN5, (b)
19. FbassDave - BN5, BNF5
20. Vic - VF5
21. Georges_Abitbol - BN5 (b) (c)
22. xav_paris - BN5
23. Munjibunga - BN5
24. Toolmybass - ?
25. Modny - Studio5, Prototype
26. mikoespanol - AC5
27. Ron_Plichta - BN5
28. Gbarchus - BNF5
29. nuwavedc - BN5
30. JerryJ - BN5, BN6, AC5
31. yansdgr - BNF5
32. firebass - AC5, AC6
33. <reserved for the return of choad42>
    
34. donstrenz - Vintage 4 (stolen)
35. Gilsonite - Studio6
36. Tjluke - BN6, AC6
37. cabooke - BNF5
38. Brad Johnson - Studio5
39. MHemmber - BN4
40. Jonno1707 - AC5
41. dreamwood - BN5
42. wolfbass1025 - BN6, AC5, 2
43. funkydanbass - AC6
44. Phillip Jordan - BN5
45. Halftooth - BN5
46. thndrstk6 - BN6
47. funkifiedsoul - Vintage4
48. Trapeze Fan - BN5
49. Poppsyche - BN6
50. Groovy Bastard - BN6
51. Kemet09 - Vintage4
52. ModulusAcacia - AC5
53. bassjam - BN5
54. Bassconbeatz - BN6
55. Basses55 -
56. blen dem - BN5
57. Kevin Woods - BNF6
58. pierreganseman - BN5
59. DiDi G - BN6
60. Greggles - BN4
61. kotzman - AC5
62. Alphaman - BN6
63. remigioremigio - BN5
64. JensWest - BN5
65. eduardxtb - BN6
66. dveeus1 - BNF5, BN5
67. paulvienneau - BN6, AC6
68. bdgotoh - BN4
69. xav_paris - BNF5
70. rabster - VF5, AC5
    
71. funkygeos - BN5
72. fusoid - AC6, BN6
73. WovenGraphite - BN6 (b), AC6 (b)
74. rnlytton - AC6, AC6-LW, BN5 (piccolo), 3 BN6s!
75. bardlute - AC5
76. chrisloe - BN6
77. yinghock - BN5
78. <Your name could be here!>

Former Fbass owners:
GRoberts, AJ Brown, JRB, jmondick, ursus, Freddy-G, Adrian Garcia, Yvon, dean82, smperry, FortressOne, Ryan_L, rodneyat, 123eranoid, Gordon of Eden, choad42, black.rose1402, blen dem

[yinghock]

Thanks

[DonovanBankhead]

I'm definitely one of those guys that thinks there is no such thing as "cheating". If a piece of gear allows you to play better, then by all means get it. Who care about correct technique - ultimately it's about the sound and the groove, baby!

Sorry for non F Bass material here, but there are some very smart TB brothers on here that probably know the answer to this: anybody familiar with adding paypal buttons to wordpress sites? I update my fretspot.com site recently to make it easier for people to purchase F Bass strings online - but how do I get it to allow for combined shipping? Feel free to answer via email or PM.

[funkygeos]

Originally Posted by yinghock

Thanks

Yinghock from Singapore? I'm from Singapore too. lolz

[funkygeos]

Originally Posted by dkb

I'm definitely one of those guys that thinks there is no such thing as "cheating". If a piece of gear allows you to play better, then by all means get it. Who care about correct technique - ultimately it's about the sound and the groove, baby!

Sorry for non F Bass material here, but there are some very smart TB brothers on here that probably know the answer to this: anybody familiar with adding paypal buttons to wordpress sites? I update my fretspot.com site recently to make it easier for people to purchase F Bass strings online - but how do I get it to allow for combined shipping? Feel free to answer via email or PM.

Hi Donovan,

If you have added the paypal button, is it possible to buy Fbass online via your website? Is oversea shipping possible? Probably getting a VF in the near future.

Regards.

[Georges Abitbol]

It seems yinghock is #76 as xav_paris is countered 2 times?

Originally Posted by Tom7

(Updated 20 July 2009)
#00 George_Furlanet

1. Quadzilla - BN4, BN5, ?
2. Tombowlus - BN4, BN5, VF5
3. Puff_father - BN5
4. Debassed - BNF5
5. ThumbyAche - BN5, GFC
6. brandonwong - BN6, BN6 custom, AC6, BNF5, BNF5(2), BN5 custom
7. Tom7 - AC6, BN5, BN6, VF5
8. Erick Lam - Vintage Fretless 5
9. knarleybass - BN5, BN6
10. Reefer - BN5, BN4?
11. VinceLovesF - BN5, AC5
12. T._Brookins - BN5
13. DKB - BN5
14. Speyer - BN6 (b)
15. jmilky - BN5
16. edel - BN5
17. administrator - BN5
18. Dave Hill - BN5, (b)
19. FbassDave - BN5, BNF5
20. Vic - VF5
21. Georges_Abitbol - BN5 (b) (c)
22. xav_paris - BN5
23. Munjibunga - BN5
24. Toolmybass - ?
25. Modny - Studio5, Prototype
26. mikoespanol - AC5
27. Ron_Plichta - BN5
28. Gbarchus - BNF5
29. nuwavedc - BN5
30. JerryJ - BN5, BN6, AC5
31. yansdgr - BNF5
32. firebass - AC5, AC6
33. <reserved for the return of choad42>
    
34. donstrenz - Vintage 4 (stolen)
35. Gilsonite - Studio6
36. Tjluke - BN6, AC6
37. cabooke - BNF5
38. Brad Johnson - Studio5
39. MHemmber - BN4
40. Jonno1707 - AC5
41. dreamwood - BN5
42. wolfbass1025 - BN6, AC5, 2
43. funkydanbass - AC6
44. Phillip Jordan - BN5
45. Halftooth - BN5
46. thndrstk6 - BN6
47. funkifiedsoul - Vintage4
48. Trapeze Fan - BN5
49. Poppsyche - BN6
50. Groovy Bastard - BN6
51. Kemet09 - Vintage4
52. ModulusAcacia - AC5
53. bassjam - BN5
54. Bassconbeatz - BN6
55. Basses55 -
56. blen dem - BN5
57. Kevin Woods - BNF6
58. pierreganseman - BN5
59. DiDi G - BN6
60. Greggles - BN4
61. kotzman - AC5
62. Alphaman - BN6
63. remigioremigio - BN5
64. JensWest - BN5
65. eduardxtb - BN6
66. dveeus1 - BNF5, BN5
67. paulvienneau - BN6, AC6
68. bdgotoh - BN4
69. xav_paris - BNF5
70. rabster - VF5, AC5
    
71. funkygeos - BN5
72. fusoid - AC6, BN6
73. WovenGraphite - BN6 (b), AC6 (b)
74. rnlytton - AC6, AC6-LW, BN5 (piccolo), 3 BN6s!
75. bardlute - AC5
76. chrisloe - BN6
77. yinghock - BN5
78. <Your name could be here!>

Former Fbass owners:
GRoberts, AJ Brown, JRB, jmondick, ursus, Freddy-G, Adrian Garcia, Yvon, dean82, smperry, FortressOne, Ryan_L, rodneyat, 123eranoid, Gordon of Eden, choad42, black.rose1402, blen dem

Anyway, today I'll try not thinking buying another F.

[Georges Abitbol]

OK I failed, I've just sent some emails to my favorite dealers.

Do you know if I can purchase an FBass case alone? I'd rather to have a case than a Gigbag, especially when I'm going from my house ot reharshals with subways...

[thndrstk6]

They have a polyfoam case with the Fbass logo on it but their hardshell case is a Gator case.