Club Fbass (Part 4)

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by harrybosch

Funny discussion. I was considering getting a VF5, and still may, but after hearing Joe's clips I'll definitely not be getting an ash/maple one. Those clips sound very little like a 70's jazz to me. It's not a bad tone but it's missing the "earthy" sort of tone the best jazz basses I've played/heard have. It's great to finally hear one of these played by someone that can play, though. The youtube video's of this bass for the most part are painful. That one guy who plays the Jaco tune is pretty good but I'd rather just hear him play without the backing track so I can really hear the bass.

By the way...

I REALLY enjoy the Fbass clips on youtube made by common players. I think they help me evaluate the BASS, without the danger of being swept up by the "halo effect," you know?

I mean, it is really easy for me to listen to Alain Caron or Dave Hughes and think, "Wow, I gotta get me a bass like that!"

The thing is, a guy like Alain Caron could probably pick up a Louisville Slugger, nail 6 bungee cords to it, and still impress the #$%^ out of me, you know?

So to evaluate a bass, for me it's helpful to have clips of it being played by a great player so I know it's potential, and clips of it being played by mere mortals as well so I know what it will sound like in MY hands!

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by narud

think about how long some of those guys had been working with builder before the sig model you see of theirs today and then look at how old had is.

the pickguard on marcus' bass was by rogers' own admission his inexperience at the time. the look became iconic though.

alain caron has been playing f basses since the late 70's. do you think his first bass had acoustic chambers and piezos?

willis' main bass for a long time was a pretty stock looking sr885 other than the pickup placement (i wish my old885 had the pickup spacing his had.)

garrison played a 35" scale imperial for years. his sig model pretty much an imperial with a 33" scale. nothing real groundbreaking.

the victor wooten sig was a pj monarch for forever until the yinyang came out.

its not like all these guys came out with something super different as their first sig bass.

Oh, I totally agree 100% with every word of this.

And while I've been using too many words to say this, let me say it again, this time short and sweet:

I'm cutting Had some slack on this now. Uncle!

[Vic]

Originally Posted by narud

the victor wooten sig was a pj monarch for forever until the yinyang came out.

Also, ironically, I've rarely seen him play the YY bass... not never, but DEFINITELY not as much as his old beat up 4 string PJ Monarch. That still seems to be his number one go-to bass by far.

[narud]

Originally Posted by harrybosch

Funny discussion. I was considering getting a VF5, and still may, but after hearing Joe's clips I'll definitely not be getting an ash/maple one. Those clips sound very little like a 70's jazz to me. It's not a bad tone but it's missing the "earthy" sort of tone the best jazz basses I've played/heard have. It's great to finally hear one of these played by someone that can play, though. The youtube video's of this bass for the most part are painful. That one guy who plays the Jaco tune is pretty good but I'd rather just hear him play without the backing track so I can really hear the bass.

what era of 70's jazz do dig? heres the same line played with my 78 jazz for comparison
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153287.../shine_78.html
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153226...27/biz_78.html

bass is played through an alleva coppolo outboard pre with the bass halfway up and the treble a quarter of the way up plugged directly into the input of my soundcard. about as ghetto as you could record a clip!

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by Vic

Also, ironically, I've rarely seen him play the YY bass... not never, but DEFINITELY not as much as his old beat up 4 string PJ Monarch. That still seems to be his number one go-to bass by far.

Yes, I noticed that too, but then he seemed to have retired the Monarch and gone with the Yin Yang exclusively for fretted work, but then MOST recently...

But most recently, Vic has been playing a new Yin Yang that appears to have an ebony board, and uses a darker wood than holly for the top:

[Vic]

Originally Posted by narud

...heres the same line played with my 78 jazz for comparison...

AWESOME... man, this was really great for an A/B compario...

Ok, I've been A/B'ing these, and for simplicity:

'78 J:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153287.../shine_78.html
VF5:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15051751...9b1/shine.html

...and...

'78 J:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153226...27/biz_78.html
VF5:
http://www.4shared.com/file/150517448/16badf67/biz.html

Man, you can really hear the diff in the mids. You did a real good job of setting them up to have a very similar sizzle, but the mids are clearly different. Seems a little bit higher of a "grind" on the Fender.

I have to say, while the VF does sound really great (at least IMHO), you HAVE to give the Fender its due. IMHO it stands right up to the VF.

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by Tom7

Joe really can play, can't he.

Edmond is the name of the guy doing the Jaco track. When I listen to that clip with my computer speakers, I feel like you do, but when I listen with my Bose headphones, the VF5 is much more distinguishable.

I've got my left hand in a cast, otherwise I would love to make a sample of my alder and rosewood VF5 for you to evaluate.

I have a 1976 Fender Jazz bass, and it keeps me "gas free" for the most part from wanting a VF5 in that configuration.

But I will say that even if I didn't have that bass, I'm sure I'd still prefer alder and rosewood VF5s. In all youtube clips and MP3s I've heard so far, the 60s VF5s are more appealing to me than the 70s, and I'm not sure why.

BTW, that's not meant as a knock to anyone's bass; I don't think they sound bad, they just don't do it for me like the alder and rosewood do for some reason. I'm very happy with my alder and rosewood version of the VF5, both tonally and for how it plays.

Be sure and check out the alder and rosewood VF5s if you can... they are so worth a careful look.

By the way, with regard to Edmond's oft referred to clip of Weather Report's Havana...

I have visited with him about this and he used Cubebase to reduce Jaco's bass in the backing track. If you can listen to it with nice headphones or speakers, you can tell that most of what we are hearing is Edmond's VF5.

[narud]

Originally Posted by Vic

AWESOME... man, this was really great for an A/B compario...

Ok, I've been A/B'ing these, and for simplicity:

'78 J:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153287.../shine_78.html
VF5:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15051751...9b1/shine.html

...and...

'78 J:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153226...27/biz_78.html
VF5:
http://www.4shared.com/file/150517448/16badf67/biz.html

Man, you can really hear the diff in the mids. You did a real good job of setting them up to have a very similar sizzle, but the mids are clearly different. Seems a little bit higher of a "grind" on the Fender.

I have to say, while the VF does sound really great (at least IMHO), you HAVE to give the Fender its due. IMHO it stands right up to the VF.

your dead on. the f bass is a little prettier sounding. the high strings are a little thinner sounding acoustically as well. i still prefer the fender, but for a 5 string in its stock configuration without having to specify certain details or specs, the vf5 is getting closer than anything ive heard since carey isnt using northern ash as the stock spec. this f bass is every bit of 10 and 1/2 pounds and i know that doesnt appeal to some guys, but it really gives it a different character.

id be interested if swapping to a blend pot or somehow adding some capacitance would bring back some grind and un pretty it. i posted some clips in the pickups forum of my 75 ri with a coppolo pre onboard and then again with it outboard. the outboard clip was grindier and not as wide sounding.

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by Vic

AWESOME... man, this was really great for an A/B compario...

Ok, I've been A/B'ing these, and for simplicity:

'78 J:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153287.../shine_78.html
VF5:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15051751...9b1/shine.html

...and...

'78 J:
http://www.4shared.com/file/15153226...27/biz_78.html
VF5:
http://www.4shared.com/file/150517448/16badf67/biz.html

Man, you can really hear the diff in the mids. You did a real good job of setting them up to have a very similar sizzle, but the mids are clearly different. Seems a little bit higher of a "grind" on the Fender.

I have to say, while the VF does sound really great (at least IMHO), you HAVE to give the Fender its due. IMHO it stands right up to the VF.

Phew! I'm glad I noticed you had posted this because (I have 2 talkbass windows open right now) I was doing a post exactly like this will links to all 4 clips.

My opinion is pretty close to yours too, except that I would worded it that the VF5 is doing a remarkable job of holding up to the 78 Fender. Thankfully, George's modern updates to the Fender, such as the 5th string, better cutaway and sleeker body style haven't not detracted from the bass's original goal of sounding like a vintage Fender.

These clips are just remarkable when put together like this.

These basses are awfully close, and I wonder if I could distinguish between them if I couldn't A/B them like this in total silence and headphones... but since I can, I have to confess to SLIGHTLY preferring the Fender's finger style tone, and VF5's slap style tone in these two recordings, but the preferences could also be attributable to the slight differences in recording or eq as well, they are so close.

Thanks, Joe.

These clips are really important in terms of evaluating the ash and maple VF5... it's the best thing I've heard on this topic yet.

And thanks, Vic, for compiling the links in one place.

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by narud

your dead on. the f bass is a little prettier sounding. the high strings are a little thinner sounding acoustically as well. i still prefer the fender, but for a 5 string in its stock configuration without having to specify certain details or specs, the vf5 is getting closer than anything ive heard since carey isnt using northern ash as the stock spec. this f bass is every bit of 10 and 1/2 pounds and i know that doesnt appeal to some guys, but it really gives it a different character.

id be interested if swapping to a blend pot or somehow adding some capacitance would bring back some grind and un pretty it. i posted some clips in the pickups forum of my 75 ri with a coppolo pre onboard and then again with it outboard. the outboard clip was grindier and not as wide sounding.

Before swapping pots, I wonder what swapping outboard preamps would tell you.

I've downloaded all 4 clips and I have them looping on my computer (play count currently at 6 for them), and I just have to say again this this A/Bing opportunity is remarkable. Thanks so much again for posting this for us.

The Fbass does seem to have a slightly more refined character to its tone which is more apparent in finger style playing.

Do you have Fbass strings on the F in this clip? Well, maybe I should ask it this way: what strings do you have on each bass in these clips? Are they about the same age?

[Tom7]

Also, have you tried running the VF5 in passive mode through the Alleva Coppolo outboard pre to see what it gives you?

Perhaps the "prettiness" is in the preamp.

Back to the topic of strings, Edmond's slap sample on YouTube with his ash and maple VF5 uses Marcus Miller DRs, and it seems to have shed the prettiness we heard in your clips.

[narud]

Originally Posted by Tom7

Also, have you tried running the VF5 in passive mode through the Alleva Coppolo outboard pre to see what it gives you?

Perhaps the "prettiness" is in the preamp.

Back to the topic of strings, Edmond's slap sample on YouTube with his ash and maple VF5 uses Marcus Miller DRs, and it seems to have shed the prettiness we heard in your clips.

ive heard that clip and to my ear it sounds even plinkier up top, almost like when the treble knob is near maxed.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by narud

ive heard that clip and to my ear it sounds even plinkier up top, almost like when the treble knob is near maxed.

+1, tho I wonder what the room/amp rig/mic might be doing in this particular recording as well. It woulda' been better for him to have done a DI recording. He's clearly got the gear for it.

[BIg O]

Originally Posted by chrisloe

As a person who is trying to get back into this club by getting my old BN-6 back or buying a new one from Donovan, I can say you guys are missing 2 important points.

1) There has been way too few new pictures of Fbasses for me to drool over the last couple of days and

So I've spent the last 2 years battling carpal tunnel syndrome (I finally see the surgeon on Dec 15) and not paying much attention to my instruments, let alone this forum. Just found this thread - this "club" notion is new to me.

I've got 3 F Basses; a 1987 fretted passive 6-string (similar to today's BN6) with the old-style pickups (they have dummies in the cavity), a 2002 Studio 5 (no longer made), and a figured maple topped BN5.

To placate chrisloe here's a low-res pic from another thread.

[thndrstk6]

I love that figured BN5. Good luck with your carpal tunnel.

[Tom7]

Originally Posted by BIg O

So I've spent the last 2 years battling carpal tunnel syndrome (I finally see the surgeon on Dec 15) and not paying much attention to my instruments, let alone this forum. Just found this thread - this "club" notion is new to me.

I've got 3 F Basses; a 1987 fretted passive 6-string (similar to today's BN6) with the old-style pickups (they have dummies in the cavity), a 2002 Studio 5 (no longer made), and a figured maple topped BN5.

To placate chrisloe here's a low-res pic from another thread.

Today's roster update extends a warm Friday the 13th welcome to our newest club member, Big O, and his 3 very interesting Fs.

Welcome aboard.

And we all certainly wish you best ... to your face at least. Some are probably secretly wishing your basses will go up for sale. Kidding of course, best wishes for sure.

CLUB FBASS ROSTER
(Updated 13 November 2009)

1. George_Furlanet (Number assigned by club vote)
2. Tombowlus - BN4, BN5, VF5
3. Puff_father - BN5
4. Debassed - BNF5
5. ThumbyAche - BN5, GFC
6. brandonwong - BN6, BN6 custom, AC6, BNF5, BNF5(2), BN5 custom
7. Tom7 - AC6, BN5, BN6, VF5
8. Erick Lam - Vintage Fretless 5
9. knarleybass - BN5, BN6
10. Reefer - BN5, BN4?
11. VinceLovesF - BN5, AC5
12. T._Brookins - BN5
13. DKB - BN5
14. Speyer - BN6 (b)
15. jmilky - BN5
16. edel - BN5
17. administrator - BN5
18. Dave Hill - BN5, (b)
19. FbassDave - BN5, BNF5
20. Vic - VF5
21. Georges_Abitbol - BN5 (b) (c)
22. xav_paris - BN5, (b)
23. Munjibunga - BN5
24. Toolmybass - ?
25. Modny - Studio5, Prototype
26. mikoespanol - AC5
27. Ron_Plichta - BN5
28. Gbarchus - BNF5
29. nuwavedc - BN5
30. JerryJ - BN5, BN6, AC5
31. yansdgr - BNF5
32. firebass - AC5, AC6
33. <reserved for the return of choad42>
34. donstrenz - Vintage 4 (stolen)
35. Gilsonite - Studio6
36. Tjluke - BN6, AC6
37. cabooke - BNF5
38. Brad Johnson - Studio5
39. MHemmber - BN4
40. FortressOne - BN5
41. dreamwood - BN5
42. wolfbass1025 - BN6, AC5, 2
43. funkydanbass - AC6
44. Phillip Jordan - BN5
45. Halftooth - BN5
46. thndrstk6 - BN6
47. funkifiedsoul - Vintage4
48. Trapeze Fan - BN5
49. Poppsyche - BN6
50. Groovy Bastard - BN6
51. Kemet09 - Vintage4
52. ModulusAcacia - AC5
53. bassjam - BN5
54. Bassconbeatz - BN6
55. Basses55 -
56. Kevin Woods - BNF6
57. pierreganseman - BN5
58. DiDi G - BN6
59. Greggles - BN4
60. kotzman - AC5
61. Alphaman - BN6
62. remigioremigio - BN5
63. JensWest - BN5
64. eduardxtb - BN6
65. dveeus1 - BNF5, BN5
66. paulvienneau - BN6, AC6
67. bdgotoh - BN4
68. rabster - VF5, AC5
69. funkygeos - BN5
70. fusoid - AC6, BN6
71. WovenGraphite - BN6 (b), AC6 (b)
72. rnlytton - AC6, AC6-LW, BN5 (piccolo), 3 BN6s!
73. bardlute - AC5
74. chrisloe - BN6
75. Iposavad - BNF5
76. yinghock - BN5
77. pocketmonster - BN5
78. bassment bn5 - BN5
79. hairman - BN6, BNF5,
80. JOEP054 - AC5, BN5
81. p0k - VF5
82. jmilkey - BN5
83. Bass Junkie - AC4, (with a VF4 being built!)
84. narud - VF5
85. BIg O - Studio 5, Passive 6, BN5
86. <Your name could be here!>

Former Fbass owners:
GRoberts, AJ Brown, JRB, jmondick, ursus, Freddy-G, Adrian Garcia, Yvon, dean82, smperry, Ryan_L, rodneyat, 123eranoid, Gordon of Eden, choad42, black.rose1402, blen dem, Jonno1707 - AC5, Quadzilla - BN4, BN5, ?, RoboChrist - BN4, blen dem - BN5,

[Bass Junkie]

When my '60's alder/rosewood VF4 shows up I'll try to get some sound clips together to compare it with my '62 Jazz. It will be more or a apples to apples comparison especially with the nitro finish and vintage bridge.

The physical characteristics of a 5 string are going account for some differences vs a 4 string.

As far as ash/maple basses go, I have never found maple necks with a maple cap sound the same as a one piece skunk stripe neck.

[Tom7]

Sounds good. BTW, there have been times I've come on to talkbass and wished there was more happening in this forum, but after yesterday, I'm kinda glad it is settling down! Phew!

[George Furlanet]

Originally Posted by narud

your dead on. the f bass is a little prettier sounding. the high strings are a little thinner sounding acoustically as well. i still prefer the fender, but for a 5 string in its stock configuration without having to specify certain details or specs, the vf5 is getting closer than anything ive heard since carey isnt using northern ash as the stock spec. this f bass is every bit of 10 and 1/2 pounds and i know that doesnt appeal to some guys, but it really gives it a different character.

id be interested if swapping to a blend pot or somehow adding some capacitance would bring back some grind and un pretty it. i posted some clips in the pickups forum of my 75 ri with a coppolo pre onboard and then again with it outboard. the outboard clip was grindier and not as wide sounding.

What strings are on the VF5?
I found the Marcus Miller DR to produce a thicker more vintage sound than the F Bass strings. Also if you want more mids, slowly rause the bridge pickup to suit.

[narud]

Originally Posted by George Furlanet

What strings are on the VF5?
I found the Marcus Miller DR to produce a thicker more vintage sound than the F Bass strings. Also if you want more mids, slowly rause the bridge pickup to suit.

its got the f bass strings. it goes beyond strings though. ive put generic 5 dollar strings on basses and not have it lose its inherent character. raising the bridge pickup also takes away from the classic 70's jazz bass tone imo.

its a great bass though. like i said earlier, theres not anything else that comes stock like this that sounds as close to a 70's jazz. most guys are using ash resulting in 9 pound basses. they just dont hit as hard.