Club FBass (Part 5)

[KJung]

Originally Posted by narud

are all the poles below the cover? the poles are radiused (unnecessary imo considering the board flattens out to 14") on my two basses which puts the b and g string poles slightly under the cover.

All the poles were significantly below the cover when I got the bass. I pushed down hard on the pickup cover, and the pickup itself seemed to reseat itself in the cover, with, as you suggest, now only the G and B poles a bit under the cover. Doesn't seem to impact the sound either way, so no big problem.

[thndrstk6]

Originally Posted by CliffD

Dude where'd you get the graffiti graphic???

Google images. Hahaha

http://thecrustycurmudgeon.files.wor...raffiti-13.jpg

I use to do some when I was younger though. It's a lot of fun but very illegal.

[KJung]

Hey guys. I have quite a few hours now with the VF5, and after my initial panic (the neck pickup was set very low compared to the bridge, so all I could get was a kind of 'burp' from the bass 'out of the box'), I put a new set of Lo Rider steels on it, raised that neck pickup about 1/4" or a touch more, cranked the preamp a bit (about halfway bass, 1/4 mid, and just a touch of treble), and I've had great luck getting it to sound VERY similar to my beloved A-C LM5... even a bit grittier and Fendery-er (that's at least partially due to the VF5 having Lo Riders and the A-C LM having the sweeter, smoother, sizzlier Hi Beams).

One of the cool things about the VF is that, given how nicely voiced the mid control is, you can favor the bridge pickup, dial in more midrange and kind of mimic the 'burp' of a J with 60's bridge pickup placement... not exactly, but my point is, you can fatten it up a bit more than with the 2 band pre on the A-C and most other 'boutique' J's. Also, the way the treble and mids are voiced on the pre, you can vary the tone quite a bit from traditional to quite 'modern, wide, sizzly' whatever. The A-C is more of an 'is what it is' bass.

Anyway, here's the 'test rig' and a picture of both basses side by side for reference. The VF is smaller at the nut (1 3/4" vs 1 7/8's for the A-C) and the neck is a bit smaller all around (less wood outside the B and G strings and a touch more 'flattened' on the C profile). George's neck finish feels like raw wood (kind of like an oil finish feel), whereas Jimmy's satin poly feels very smooth and, well, satin poly finished!

The VF has a more modern fretboard radius (compound that flattens out) versus the more old school constant 10" radius on the A-C. I like both.

The VF with the pre boosts set where I think the bass sounds the best is about the same output level as the A-C set flat with just a touch of bass boost... which makes it easy to go back and forth.

The VF is about a pound heavier than the A-C (10.5 versus 9 and change).

Anyway, nice bass, nice and 'Fendery' but with a more modern feel and look. That's a pretty powerful combination. Nice job George!

I may put up a clip or two later on. It sounds pretty darn good!

[speyer]

Sweet!

Wecome back to the world of fbass Ken! Congrats on the new bass

A VF5er is first on my gas list for sure.

Pat.

[narud]

Originally Posted by KJung

Hey guys. I have quite a few hours now with the VF5, and after my initial panic (the neck pickup was set very low compared to the bridge, so all I could get was a kind of 'burp' from the bass 'out of the box'), I put a new set of Lo Rider steels on it, raised that neck pickup about 1/4" or a touch more, cranked the preamp a bit (about halfway bass, 1/4 mid, and just a touch of treble), and I've had great luck getting it to sound VERY similar to my beloved A-C LM5... even a bit grittier and Fendery-er (that's at least partially due to the VF5 having Lo Riders and the A-C LM having the sweeter, smoother, sizzlier Hi Beams).

One of the cool things about the VF is that, given how nicely voiced the mid control is, you can favor the bridge pickup, dial in more midrange and kind of mimic the 'burp' of a J with 60's bridge pickup placement... not exactly, but my point is, you can fatten it up a bit more than with the 2 band pre on the A-C and most other 'boutique' J's. Also, the way the treble and mids are voiced on the pre, you can vary the tone quite a bit from traditional to quite 'modern, wide, sizzly' whatever. The A-C is more of an 'is what it is' bass.

Anyway, here's the 'test rig' and a picture of both basses side by side for reference. The VF is smaller at the nut (1 3/4" vs 1 7/8's for the A-C) and the neck is a bit smaller all around (less wood outside the B and G strings and a touch more 'flattened' on the C profile). George's neck finish feels like raw wood (kind of like an oil finish feel), whereas Jimmy's satin poly feels very smooth and, well, satin poly finished!

The VF has a more modern fretboard radius (compound that flattens out) versus the more old school constant 10" radius on the A-C. I like both.

The VF with the pre boosts set where I think the bass sounds the best is about the same output level as the A-C set flat with just a touch of bass boost... which makes it easy to go back and forth.

The VF is about a pound heavier than the A-C (10.5 versus 9 and change).

Anyway, nice bass, nice and 'Fendery' but with a more modern feel and look. That's a pretty powerful combination. Nice job George!

I may put up a clip or two later on. It sounds pretty darn good!

i think the satin on the neck glosses up over time. i bought my 70's vf5 used and the back of the neck is shiny and feels more like a finish than the raw wood. however, on the back of the headstock, it has that satin, raw feel. the 60's bass i bought new still feels raw over the complete back of the neck. im hoping with some playing hours, it glosses like the other bass because i like the slightly stickier/finished feel.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by narud

i think the satin on the neck glosses up over time. i bought my 70's vf5 used and the back of the neck is shiny and feels more like a finish than the raw wood. however, on the back of the headstock, it has that satin, raw feel. the 60's bass i bought new still feels raw over the complete back of the neck. im hoping with some playing hours, it glosses like the other bass because i like the slightly stickier/finished feel.

Cool. It feels fine... if it smooths and glosses a bit over time, all the better!

Thanks again for the tips on the strings (perfect) and the pickup/set-up/EQ suggestions.... perfect again!

[emjazz]

Originally Posted by KJung

Hey guys. I have quite a few hours now with the VF5, and after my initial panic (the neck pickup was set very low compared to the bridge, so all I could get was a kind of 'burp' from the bass 'out of the box'), I put a new set of Lo Rider steels on it, raised that neck pickup about 1/4" or a touch more, cranked the preamp a bit (about halfway bass, 1/4 mid, and just a touch of treble), and I've had great luck getting it to sound VERY similar to my beloved A-C LM5... even a bit grittier and Fendery-er (that's at least partially due to the VF5 having Lo Riders and the A-C LM having the sweeter, smoother, sizzlier Hi Beams).

One of the cool things about the VF is that, given how nicely voiced the mid control is, you can favor the bridge pickup, dial in more midrange and kind of mimic the 'burp' of a J with 60's bridge pickup placement... not exactly, but my point is, you can fatten it up a bit more than with the 2 band pre on the A-C and most other 'boutique' J's. Also, the way the treble and mids are voiced on the pre, you can vary the tone quite a bit from traditional to quite 'modern, wide, sizzly' whatever. The A-C is more of an 'is what it is' bass.

Anyway, here's the 'test rig' and a picture of both basses side by side for reference. The VF is smaller at the nut (1 3/4" vs 1 7/8's for the A-C) and the neck is a bit smaller all around (less wood outside the B and G strings and a touch more 'flattened' on the C profile). George's neck finish feels like raw wood (kind of like an oil finish feel), whereas Jimmy's satin poly feels very smooth and, well, satin poly finished!

The VF has a more modern fretboard radius (compound that flattens out) versus the more old school constant 10" radius on the A-C. I like both.

The VF with the pre boosts set where I think the bass sounds the best is about the same output level as the A-C set flat with just a touch of bass boost... which makes it easy to go back and forth.

The VF is about a pound heavier than the A-C (10.5 versus 9 and change).

Anyway, nice bass, nice and 'Fendery' but with a more modern feel and look. That's a pretty powerful combination. Nice job George!

I may put up a clip or two later on. It sounds pretty darn good!

Great to hear you're diggin the F bass. I'm sure those are wonderful instruments.

.....it seems TC Electronics is marketing the s*** out of their new line.....it's the new "it" thing huh?

[KJung]

Originally Posted by emjazz

Great to hear you're diggin the F bass. I'm sure those are wonderful instruments.

.....it seems TC Electronics is marketing the s*** out of their new line.....it's the new "it" thing huh?

Yeah, they had a big push on about a year ago. Seems to be more 'word of mouth' now. I like the cabs, but LOVE the head... amazing feature set, massive volume for its wattage rating, great compressor, four bands of semi-parametric EQ, great tuner, tube emulation that actual sounds relatively real, transformer driven DI, great headphone amp with stereo RC inputs.... it makes one giddy just to talk about it Seriously though, world class head, and decent cabs that are VERY inexpensive.

[CliffD]

Very cool review KJung! I appreciate your comparison with the AC as well, now I just have to mull through Mike Lulls, Nordys, and Laklands on my search for a five string jazz bass...

[KJung]

Originally Posted by CliffD

Very cool review KJung! I appreciate your comparison with the AC as well, now I just have to mull through Mike Lulls, Nordys, and Laklands on my search for a five string jazz bass...

So much great stuff out there in this category! There's hardly one of these I couldn't play.

The A-C is a kind of 'looks like a J, feels like a J, sounds like a J.

The VF5 is a kind of 'doesn't look like a J, doesn't really feel like a J, but sounds like a J.

I hear the new Nordy Classics are great also (another looks, feels and sounds like a J)

I didn't like the original Nordy basses at all... they were: looks like a J, doesn't feel like a J, doesn't sound like a J.

Mike Lull makes a beautiful sounding instrument for a very good price also.

The Laklands haven't really done it for me, other than the discontinued DJ model.

IMO!

[Vic]

Originally Posted by KJung

The Laklands haven't really done it for me, other than the discontinued DJ model.

Not to derail, but WHAT THE... !!!!

Man I did not know that, and IMHO, that's a mistake for them to have killed that model without replacing it with a similar spec'd one. The JO is nice, but IMHO the DJ was the stuff!

[emjazz]

Originally Posted by Vic

Not to derail, but WHAT THE... !!!!

Man I did not know that, and IMHO, that's a mistake for them to have killed that model without replacing it with a similar spec'd one. The JO is nice, but IMHO the DJ was the stuff!

They're working on something to replace it. I think Albey Balgochian (sp?) is building again so D. Jones is back playing A Basses now....or something to that effect. I think Albey still had the rights to the design maybe?

[Dave Hill]

I've always preached that cranking the preamp on Fbasses is the way to go. Given the lower output of the bass in passive, and the broad usable sweep of the tone controls, it seems to be designed for it. Brings it up to the level of other active basses I've had. Also, I don't go for the "has to sound best flat" mentality with basses...or amps for that matter. It's definately a different approach than the Sadowsky I owned, where IMO, there was "too much of a good thing" when it came to the preamp. Plus, that mid knob is worth its weight in gold for adding a little presence on the fly in a live mix.

I was kind of expecting that you'd dig the bass, Ken, when I heard Narud's clips. I thought he had his VF5 sounding pretty darn close to his Jazz. Your VF definately has some stiff "competition" there, though. The more modern design elements may grow on you over a little time. Even visually, Fbasses make the conventional jazz shape (a longtime fav of mine) look a little dated and "chunky", but pure IMO there.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Dave Hill

I've always preached that cranking the preamp on Fbasses is the way to go. Given the lower output of the bass in passive, and the broad usable sweep of the tone controls, it seems to be designed for it. Brings it up to the level of other active basses I've had. Also, I don't go for the "has to sound best flat" mentality with basses...or amps for that matter. It's definately a different approach than the Sadowsky I owned, where IMO, there was "too much of a good thing" when it came to the preamp. Plus, that mid knob is worth its weight in gold for adding a little presence on the fly in a live mix.

I was kind of expecting that you'd dig the bass, Ken, when I heard Narud's clips. I thought he had his VF5 sounding pretty darn close to his Jazz. Your VF definately has some stiff "competition" there, though. The more modern design elements may grow on you over a little time. Even visually, Fbasses make the conventional jazz shape (a longtime fav of mine) look a little dated and "chunky", but pure IMO there.

+1 on all counts. I agree that the more traditional J body on the A-C looks a bit 'rough' next to those sweeping curves of the VF5. I'm diggin' the look. I still like the feel of that big old J body when gigging, but that's a minor issue.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by emjazz

They're working on something to replace it. I think Albey Balgochian (sp?) is building again so D. Jones is back playing A Basses now....or something to that effect. I think Albey still had the rights to the design maybe?

That's my understanding also, based on third hand information.

[narud]

in regards to neck feel. imo, the f bass,new nordy classic, and coppolos all have similar depth of neck profiles which makes them feel similar. the nut width on the f bass is narrower which can feel "non jazz like" if youre used to all the other stuff. i cant live without it.

the f bass and the nordy are extremely similar in their neck shapes and fingerboard radii (the only real difference is the nut width). both have a 9 to 14 compound radius and they both have a rounded c shape in the lower registers that gradually turns into somewhat of a flattened c in the higher registers. neither are as extreme as the flattened c of something like a lull 5 string.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by narud

in regards to neck feel. imo, the f bass,new nordy classic, and coppolos all have similar depth of neck profiles which makes them feel similar. the nut width on the f bass is narrower which can feel "non jazz like" if youre used to all the other stuff. i cant live without it.

the f bass and the nordy are extremely similar in their neck shapes and fingerboard radii (the only real difference is the nut width). both have a 9 to 14 compound radius and they both have a rounded c shape in the lower registers that gradually turns into somewhat of a flattened c in the higher registers. neither are as extreme as the flattened c of something like a lull 5 string.

+1 The A-C also has that extra wood at the edge of the board outside the B and G string. So, that, with the slightly less shallow 'flattened C' and the wider width at the nut, and that really curved 10" radius makes it feel quite different to me, but 'in the same universe of feel'. The VF5 feels very similar to the original Nordy neck (and I would guess, as you point out, virtually identical to the Nordy classic, which has a less extreme compounding).

It does feel a bit different, but just like the Sadowsky neck versus the A-C, it is not enough to really bother me, and see no issue going back and forth between the instruments.

I guess the other way to look at it is the reasonably large, reasonable heavy ash body of the VF5, combined with that tighter nut width does bring to mind the feel of those old J's with the heavy body and that skinny, skinny at the bridge neck. When you pick the bass up of the stand, it reminds me of picking up an old jazz... reasonably heavy, and not much wood when yo grab it right below the headstock!

[Dave Hill]

+1, weight doesn't bother me, and I love the sound of heft.

I remenber the Fbass necks seeming to have less shoulder than a Sadowsky or AC, but the string spacing pretty similar. The back of my neck went from a "satin-y" feel to really (too) smooth and sticky. I hit it with a little steel wool and then wiped on a "smidge" of Wipe-On Poly, and it's been heaven ever since.

[Vic]

Originally Posted by Dave Hill

I've always preached that cranking the preamp on Fbasses is the way to go. Given the lower output of the bass in passive, and the broad usable sweep of the tone controls, it seems to be designed for it. Brings it up to the level of other active basses I've had. Also, I don't go for the "has to sound best flat" mentality with basses...

This is all well and good, but if it was truly designed to so strongly require eq boost to sound its best, then why offer passive mode? If that's really the case, then he needs to work on the bass's "flat" tone, or remove the passive option.

While I agree the F preamp is superb and very usable pretty much throughout it's range, if the "flat" (passive) tone is really that poor, it just needs to be fixed. Maybe with a pickup redesign.

All that said, personally (again), I really don't dislike the flat/passive tone on mine at all, but I do agree I very much like the sound with eq boosts as well.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Vic

This is all well and good, but if it was truly designed to so strongly require eq boost to sound its best, then why offer passive mode? If that's really the case, then he needs to work on the bass's "flat" tone, or remove the passive option.

While I agree the F preamp is superb and very usable pretty much throughout it's range, if the "flat" (passive) tone is really that poor, it just needs to be fixed. Maybe with a pickup redesign.

All that said, personally (again), I really don't dislike the flat/passive tone on mine at all, but I do agree I very much like the sound with eq boosts as well.

My guess is it is similar to the Sadowsky deal. Roger has posted many times that his basses are meant to be played (and the custom wound pickups are voiced for use) with the preamp engaged. He provides a passive mode for primarily safety if a battery dies or the preamp craps out.

Just like the Sadowsky, I don't think the F (VF or my old BN) sounds horrible or anything passive... it is just 'uninspiring' and you can tell that's not really what the luthier had in mind (talking about the Sadowsky for sure, and guessing that George feels somewhat similar).

I assume if Michael Tobias found a passive soapbar he liked, he would also put a passive bypass on his instruments for the same reason, as a safety backup, since he is all about that active sound and buffering IMO.