Darrin Huff basses: over TEN YEARS and still waiting

[Charles Farley]

2006 - 0 finished basses
2007 - 0 finished basses
2008 - 1 finished bass (bolt on P-bass)
2009 - 2 finished basses (bolt on J-bass, 6 string custom bass)
2010 - 1 finished bass (4 string custom bass)
2011 - ?

[Charles Farley]

Recently, one finished D Huff bass has shipped to a TB'er. Hopefully they'll chime in with some pictures.

The most recently revised deadline set by Darrin was to have all basses done by April 3rd/11.

[Hollow Man]

Thanks for the update Charles. Please keep 'em coming.

It would be great for that TB'er to chime in, even if he/she only cares to post a few sentences.

[warwick.hoy]

So I just wanted to come on and give a little update.

Over the past couple of days Darrin and I have been in talks to bring me on as a green apprentice. The goal is to speed up the production of the custom pieces and get those delivered; then begin work on the production prototypes and models.

Just to disclose; no money will change hands between he and I until the custom backlog is completed and the new production model is up and running. There will be other perks for me; mainly skillset development as well as help in getting my effects/amps business off the ground (still very much in it's embryonic stage) and the agreement will be mutually beneficial. It behooves us both to make his company successful in such a manner that all debts can be paid either in basses delivered or refunds on deposits paid back.

Over the course of conversation he and I candidly and honestly discussed his reputation. He is aware that his customers are frustrated and he absolutely does not blame them for being so. It is our priority to get the custom backlog finished and refunds on deposits for canceled orders repaid. It is our hope to ultimately restore his reputation with a solid production business model,...that way people aren't burdened with deposits and wait times. Unique one off basses will certainly be considered in the future but for now we want to get the company self supporting. The model of taking deposits on custom orders has proved so problematic that he has abandoned that paradigm completely. The new production model will only be available after completion.

While I have yet to get out to the shop (I start Wednesday) I can assure you that Darrin has hit the grindstone hard with new found inspiration and motivation and I don't think the April projection for completion of the backlog is that far off the mark.

Here is a shot taken in January:



An direct quote by Darrin himself:

Next Wednesday is James [that's me] first day, and I can tell you that knowing he is coming on board is already making a difference. It is making it where I have to get so far on stuff so he has something to do when he gets in here. And that will be great for everyday progress. If I have to keep feeding him stuff to keep busy, that means that much more is getting done! This is the change I needed.

I will do my best to update this thread and respond; in a professional manner to questions and concerns presented by participants in this thread. We both know that it will take a lot of hard work to restore his reputation but we are both dedicated to making this happen.

FWIW From me personally I want to thank those that have been patient and understanding and offer my sincerest apologies for the inconvenience and frustration. While I ultimately have to preserve my loyalty to Darrin since he is taking me under his wing rest assured that I'm in as much in your corner as I am in his. We both know that it's going to take a lot of work to restore his reputation. It's a tough road to hoe but we are just the Joe's to hoe it.

I look forward to your feedback be it positive or negative.

~James Hoy
Apprentice D.Huff Guitars.

[warwick.hoy]

Also.

Subbed.

[behndy]

you know, having somebody like James The Warwick associated with him can do nothing but help. stand up people like James would make me thing higher of somebody and have a bit more faith that they're trying to turn stuff around.

[Charles Farley]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

An direct quote by Darrin himself:

"...this is the change I needed."

Firstly, James, best of luck in your business and also in helping Darrin pull himself out of this massive hole which he dug for himself. I look forward to updates, and hearing stories about finished basses being shipped.

However, when I read quotes like the one above, I just feel the need to shake my head. To me, Darrin is doing exactly what he has always done over the years - pretending like some "new approach" to his problems is exactly what he needed. At some point, this "new approach" was dividing orders into group numbers back in 2006. In 2009, a consultant got involved and suddenly, that was the solution. Shortly thereafter, Darrin's new approach was to focus on one bass rather than too many. Now he's back to working on all of them at once, and has brought you in to help. Hey, that's great if that's the direction Darrin wants to take. I'm just not going to believe anything until I see basses being shipped. Otherwise, it's just more empty words from an individual who has quite a history using them.

My assessment of what's going on is that Darrin has a habit of moving deck chairs around on a sinking ship and thinking this will save people from drowning. In my opinion, the problem will be solved when he starts spending productive time in the shop building basses. He knows full well he is either (1) not putting the hours in that are required, or (2) not being productive while in the shop. There is no other explanation given his slow output. It's been said before, but if he spent one productive hour a day building, he'd have finished all orders by now.

As far as this thread is concerned, I have just reread it for the first time in a long while. This thread is unbelievably civilized, all things considered. What Darrin has done is inexcusable, and if April 3rd comes and goes with no basses shipped, it is important to me that at least TalkBass members (and future DHuffguitars clients) will be informed.

As for that shot you posted that was taken in January, here's one from May 2007 (almost 4 years ago). Unfortunately, I'm seeing alot of similarities between the two, which is further reason that I will wait for shipped instruments before believing that things are somehow different for his customers. Best of luck.

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by Charles Farley

Firstly, James, best of luck in your business and also in helping Darrin pull himself out of this massive hole which he dug for himself. I look forward to updates, and hearing stories about finished basses being shipped.

However, when I read quotes like the one above, I just feel the need to shake my head. To me, Darrin is doing exactly what he has always done over the years - pretending like some "new approach" to his problems is exactly what he needed. At some point, this "new approach" was dividing orders into group numbers back in 2006. In 2009, a consultant got involved and suddenly, that was the solution. Shortly thereafter, Darrin's new approach was to focus on one bass rather than too many. Now he's back to working on all of them at once, and has brought you in to help. Hey, that's great if that's the direction Darrin wants to take. I'm just not going to believe anything until I see basses being shipped. Otherwise, it's just more empty words from an individual who has quite a history using them.

My assessment of what's going on is that Darrin has a habit of moving deck chairs around on a sinking ship and thinking this will save people from drowning. In my opinion, the problem will be solved when he starts spending productive time in the shop building basses. He knows full well he is either (1) not putting the hours in that are required, or (2) not being productive while in the shop. There is no other explanation given his slow output. It's been said before, but if he spent one productive hour a day building, he'd have finished all orders by now.

As far as this thread is concerned, I have just reread it for the first time in a long while. This thread is unbelievably civilized, all things considered. What Darrin has done is inexcusable, and if April 3rd comes and goes with no basses shipped, it is important to me that at least TalkBass members (and future DHuffguitars clients) will be informed.

As for that shot you posted that was taken in January, here's one from May 2007 (almost 4 years ago). Unfortunately, I'm seeing alot of similarities between the two, which is further reason that I will wait for shipped instruments before believing that things are somehow different for his customers. Best of luck.

Thanks Charles and Behndy. I am somewhat staking my reputation on this (be that as it may). The "massive hole" is absolutely the correct assessment of the situation.

I will certainly be doing everything I can to motivate Darrin to spend productive time in the shop; by example. I pride myself on my work ethic and with any luck that will rub off on Darrin.

I myself am cautiously optimistic (although very excited) because I could find that Darrin is demanding to work for,...but I don't get that feeling from talking with him. I could also find that it isn't what I want to do with the rest of my life,...but luthiery is something that I take an interest in and the skills I will develop I can take with me. It will be a learning curve for both of us,...but I feel like my presence will be a positive one.

I know about his past with the outside consultant and other people that have worked with him and also the changes he's attempted. Ultimately it's his company and I'm not going to be one to dictate how things are done. I will certainly point out potential flaws in any changes that he implements and I'll definitely do my best to be a solid and respectful liaison between Darrin and his clients,...I'm also hoping that my position will expand into a manager type position to help him use his time more efficiently and productively. He definitely wants to expand his company and his payroll and I think he has finally realized that he can't do this by himself. The beauty with me is that I will be trained to things the way he expects them to be done and I'm at liberty to do bring more efficient ways of doing things to his attention.

I expect there to be bumps in the road along the way,...but I'm professional enough and have the stick-to-itiveness to bear with any potential bad times.

I'm not going to make any promises cept that you can rest assured that I'll keep this thread abreast of the ongoings at the shop. If April comes and goes and only one bass get's shipped I will not come on here and present spin or make excuses,...I will be candid and straight-forward and face the music. I know how to not take things personally. I think Darrin has gotten to the point where any progress at all is worth noting, but I also agree that progress is nothing until the backlog is completed.

I will agree that with no date stamp it's impossible to know when that picture was taken,...I do know that it was uploaded in January,...so take that; as well as what I say with a grain of salt. Actions speak louder than words.

Some of the periphery stuff will take a back seat. Your likely not to see many updates on the Dhuff website. It's going to be nose to the grindstone from here on out. (If I can't get Darrin on board with that then I will gracefully bow out).

I will definitely post pictures of progress to this thread,...I keep my camera on me at all times.

I'm also not going to defend his past, and I'm well aware that I'm working with someone that has an unsavory past...I think his home life has been aired out both on here and on his old message board (which I was briefly a part of) but I'm not going to make excuses. My hope; however, is that he's turned a corner from that.

It's a giant leap of faith on my part to take on this responsibility,...but when I look at it; I'd rather be doing something like this,...something I enjoy; rather than working in a kitchen for minimum wage (which is all I've been doing for the past 12 years). It'll be a challenge for sure,...and I'm not one to back down.

Ideally I want to be looking back on this 15 years from now and saying,..."man what a rocky start but I'm glad I could help get things turned around for Darrin".

Thanks again for reading and all feedback is greatly appreciated and will be considered.

[warwick.hoy]

Let me also add that I'm not looking for pats on the back or "this is great news" replies.

I don't want to provide false hope,...just to bring people up to speed on the situation of Dhuff Guitars.

We aren't out of the woods yet,....

[78Jazzlover]

Why on Earth would anyone throw in with this luthier?

[Big Brother]

I am reminded of ZZZZ Best carpets.

Barry Minkow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've come in contact with a con artist recently, his powers of BS and emotional manipulation were so incredible that I watched him 'teach' a Pro Bowl offensive lineman how to properly block at a party. All 165 pounds of him, and with a straight face. We only found out when I ran into a woman he had scammed 20K from, using the same BS he was feeding all of us.

He was so good, everyone in the room bought it, including 3 or 4 other professional players. He built this credibility by convincing everyone else that everyone else knew and had vetted him. Con men are experts at working peoples beliefs like that.

The reality is you can't judge someone by how nice they are, otherwise used car lots and time share sales offices would be the home of the square deal. You have to go by what they actually do. So far, this looks like a classic unintentional ponzi scheme, something that is essentially the same thing as an out of control gambler.

I see someone using emotional pleas and now others credibility to stave off the hounds, the same as I saw in the con I met. Sorry, that is just my gut feeling on this and I've learned the hard way to listen...

I see the opportunity presented in helping him and I hope it works out, but what it sounds like will happen is you will pay for the parts as there is no business without materials, you will largely make them and he has already spent the profit...

Be careful.

[warwick.hoy]

Thanks BB, FWIW he won't be getting any money out of me as I don't have any. That said I don't think I'm being naive,...but only time will tell.

[Charles Farley]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

I don't think I'm being naive,...but only time will tell.

I would like to give you my personal thanks, as I have a (second) bass in the queue that was paid for in full in early 2005. There has been little to no progress on this instrument that I am aware of. If there is a possibility that your involvement will either speed up building or keep Darrin honest, both are good outcomes.

As mentioned above, it sounds like you are walking into this situation with your eyes wide open. I'd hate for another person to be dragged through the mud with the rest of us. Please be careful.

[Big Brother]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

Thanks BB, FWIW he won't be getting any money out of me as I don't have any. That said I don't think I'm being naive,...but only time will tell.

As long as you aren't going in with stars in your eyes...

I could also see a scenario where you end up 'owning' the business, which could be a great thing if you can pick up his skill and continue it. I picture someone who can't let go of the belief that he is a world class luthier and it appears he is, but just can't force himself to actually do it... That is a dangerous mix because his mind is going one direction and his hands another.

At a minimum he should have had someone like Ed Roman secretly ghostbuild them when he realized he couldn't meet demand, if only to carry on his name and design while he got over whatever ailed him.

I would just recommend that if this happens, you don't 'take over' the business as it is. You buy his asserts and rights to use his last name and start new from a legal perspective. Something else I learned the hard way once, as tax collectors and other debt seekers started dropping by a business I bought 'as is' in my 20s.

It sounds like he might want out of the pressure piling up at his door and has no real way to alleviate it except to pass it off to someone else. Handle it right and it could be a very good thing actually. Just be careful...

[Root 5]

Originally Posted by Bryan R. Tyler

Doesn't change the fact that it was fraudulent business- he spent all the money from a lot of basses he hasn't even started. If shipping out one or two basses a year is enough to keep folks at bay, then he may stay at that pace and some folks may never get their instruments.

Have you ever ordered a Rickenbacker? I waited more than two years for a 4003 and now I hear the wait is about four years!!!

[warwick.hoy]

Originally Posted by Charles Farley

I would like to give you my personal thanks, as I have a (second) bass in the queue that was paid for in full in early 2005. There has been little to no progress on this instrument that I am aware of. If there is a possibility that your involvement will either speed up building or keep Darrin honest, both are good outcomes.

As mentioned above, it sounds like you are walking into this situation with your eyes wide open. I'd hate for another person to be dragged through the mud with the rest of us. Please be careful.

Your welcome Charles. You are right,..the civility in the posts preceding and following my involvement is beyond expectations and is a testament to the character of Darrin's clientele and is all the more motivating to make good on that character.

I'll try to get up to speed on who is owed what and I'm sure it's going to take organization to figure out what's going on with the backlog. He and I both want to get basses in hand as quickly as possible. It's a daunting task for sure, but not impossible.

Originally Posted by Big Brother

As long as you aren't going in with stars in your eyes...

I could also see a scenario where you end up 'owning' the business, which could be a great thing if you can pick up his skill and continue it. I picture someone who can't let go of the belief that he is a world class luthier and it appears he is, but just can't force himself to actually do it... That is a dangerous mix because his mind is going one direction and his hands another.

At a minimum he should have had someone like Ed Roman secretly ghostbuild them when he realized he couldn't meet demand, if only to carry on his name and design while he got over whatever ailed him.

I would just recommend that if this happens, you don't 'take over' the business as it is. You buy his asserts and rights to use his last name and start new from a legal perspective. Something else I learned the hard way once, as tax collectors and other debt seekers started dropping by a business I bought 'as is' in my 20s.

It sounds like he might want out of the pressure piling up at his door and has no real way to alleviate it except to pass it off to someone else. Handle it right and it could be a very good thing actually. Just be careful...

I will,...thanks. I'm not interested in owning the company,...at least not yet. I still have much to learn myself and again only time will tell. He'll be doing the bulk of the detail work while I'll be doing the grunt work. Ultimately I'd like to learn how to do everything from dimensioning all the way up to finishing and electrical work,...the later two will benefit me in building effects and the former of which will benefit me in making cabs for amps. It would appear on the surface that it will be win win for everyone, but again only time will tell.

FWIW,...I've been casually following Darrin from about early 2003,...both on his old message board and here on TB. I never threw my hat into the ring because I never had a dog in the race. We've been acquaintances for a while now and he's come out to see my band play a few times.

While you guys a certainly entitled to your opinion of Darrin,...and interpreting the facts can certainly lend itself to forming this opinion,...I never once got the feeling that Darrin intended to fraud or scam anyone. While that is certainly open for debate,...that will be my only comment on that. As I said before,...I'm not here to defend Darrin,...I'm just here to help right the ship.

~James

[EvoMan]

Just want to say 'best of luck' to James.

I've been waiting ages for a bass and have had the completion date stretched out slowly through time (most recently I was supposed to stop by his shop over a year ago to collect my bass that would definitely be done by then). It's been a real challenge to all of us to dance on the tightrope of being frustrated, but knowing that Darrin is very fragile and a negative comment could throw the whole thing down the drain. Hopefully this apprenticeship is something that can help focus him and at least have some eyes there that make him actually get work done...

[78Jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Big Brother

I am reminded of ZZZZ Best carpets.

Barry Minkow - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've come in contact with a con artist recently, his powers of BS and emotional manipulation were so incredible that I watched him 'teach' a Pro Bowl offensive lineman how to properly block at a party. All 165 pounds of him, and with a straight face. We only found out when I ran into a woman he had scammed 20K from, using the same BS he was feeding all of us.

He was so good, everyone in the room bought it, including 3 or 4 other professional players. He built this credibility by convincing everyone else that everyone else knew and had vetted him. Con men are experts at working peoples beliefs like that.

The reality is you can't judge someone by how nice they are, otherwise used car lots and time share sales offices would be the home of the square deal. You have to go by what they actually do. So far, this looks like a classic unintentional ponzi scheme, something that is essentially the same thing as an out of control gambler.

I see someone using emotional pleas and now others credibility to stave off the hounds, the same as I saw in the con I met. Sorry, that is just my gut feeling on this and I've learned the hard way to listen...

I see the opportunity presented in helping him and I hope it works out, but what it sounds like will happen is you will pay for the parts as there is no business without materials, you will largely make them and he has already spent the profit...

Be careful.

I think this hits the nail on the head ....in reference to my question above.

Kind of cuts through the BS thats going on.

Dr. Bass anyone?

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by warwick.hoy

I'm not going to make any promises cept that you can rest assured that I'll keep this thread abreast of the ongoings at the shop. If April comes and goes and only one bass get's shipped I will not come on here and present spin or make excuses,...I will be candid and straight-forward and face the music. I know how to not take things personally. I think Darrin has gotten to the point where any progress at all is worth noting, but I also agree that progress is nothing until the backlog is completed.

James, my sincere thanks to you for helping out, and for your realistic assessment of the situation.

Fellas, it goes without saying that none of us should expect a miracle turnaround -- I figure we'll be lucky to see any improvement whatsoever. But as noted above, James hasn't made any such promises. The way I figure it, James' presence can only help. So... I won't say I'm optimistic, but only that I'm slightly less pessimistic.

Best of luck, James, and thanks again.

[warwick.hoy]

Thank you guys.

I'm looking forward to going to work.