Do You Play a Fender Because It's Expected?

[Misterwogan]

Originally Posted by Scott in Dallas

For a studio musician, time is of the essence. The engineer is being paid to get a track down as quickly as possible, and telling a bass player to bring a standard bass is a courtesy that he doesn't have to extend. It has nothing to do with lazy, it has to do with time. One of the first pieces of advice a pro gives to a young session player is to always bring a couple of Fender basses to a session in case you're asked to use it, one with flats, one with rounds, etc.

I know you're speaking hypothetically, and we're just throwing things around, but if a session player decides to give the engineer crap, there are a thousand guys who will show up with the right gear, and he's going to work with those guys instead. It's less time for them to bring in someone else than to set up the board for that Wal bass on that orange juice commercial track.

One would have expected that Stu Hamm would have known all of this...

[drTSTingray]

The answer is no I don't.

Like others who have posted, if someone asked me to play one I would probably bow out because I wouldn't enjoy it and would wonder whether I was going to have any say in anything the band does or what else I might be required to do. However the fact is no-one has asked me to in 40 odd years.

I have been asked by several guitarists why I don't - I usually tell em it's none of their business - I would never dream of asking them why they play, for instance a 335, a strat etc as I would consider it patronising and possibly demeaning of their playing to ask - there's always an implied criticism with these things. I have also had other bass players ask me - at which point I would have a tech conversation with them, and after about half an hour we would agree I was right!!!!!

I need to say I don't do music as a primary source of income, I do it mostly for fun and the buzz it gives me - having an enforced choice of instrument is not my idea of fun, and I wonder whether, philosophically it's bordering on totalitarianism?? Perhaps this is an enclave of totalitarian thinking in the US?

I have a liking for Fender basses - my GAS to buy one evaporated when I was converted by a Musicman Stingray in about 1979 (it sounded like a recorded Fender to an extent, which Fenders did not - and still do not to me, live - though they are much closer with modern amps) - the GAS returns occassionally, briefly - as now with the new AV basses - let's hope that by buying a bass with nitrocellulose finish it won't render the sound different and incapable of fitting 'the mass industry's preconceived ideas of an EQ curve!!

[tbird36go]

Who expects you to play a fender bass?

[HereIGoAgain]

I play a Fender because of the available options at my dealer at the time I was ready to purchase a bass, it was the one I liked the best, and he made me a heck of a deal on the price.

I've come to really like that bass too.

[Misterwogan]

Originally Posted by drTSTingray

The answer is no I don't.

Like others who have posted, if someone asked me to play one I would probably bow out because I wouldn't enjoy it and would wonder whether I was going to have any say in anything the band does or what else I might be required to do. However the fact is no-one has asked me to in 40 odd years.

I have been asked by several guitarists why I don't - I usually tell em it's none of their business - I would never dream of asking them why they play, for instance a 335, a strat etc as I would consider it patronising and possibly demeaning of their playing to ask - there's always an implied criticism with these things. I have also had other bass players ask me - at which point I would have a tech conversation with them, and after about half an hour we would agree I was right!!!!!

I need to say I don't do music as a primary source of income, I do it mostly for fun and the buzz it gives me - having an enforced choice of instrument is not my idea of fun, and I wonder whether, philosophically it's bordering on totalitarianism?? Perhaps this is an enclave of totalitarian thinking in the US?

I have a liking for Fender basses - my GAS to buy one evaporated when I was converted by a Musicman Stingray in about 1979 (it sounded like a recorded Fender to an extent, which Fenders did not - and still do not to me, live - though they are much closer with modern amps) - the GAS returns occassionally, briefly - as now with the new AV basses - let's hope that by buying a bass with nitrocellulose finish it won't render the sound different and incapable of fitting 'the mass industry's preconceived ideas of an EQ curve!!

Very well told. I too prefer the feel of my SR HS - but, I just can't get it to work in P territory at all. Is this possible?

[Scott in Dallas]

Originally Posted by Misterwogan

One would have expected that Stu Hamm would have known all of this...

I don't know the context of the story aside from the OP, but I'm sure he either knew that or he figured it out not long after. It's not a secret.

Let's look at it this way: Someone told Stu effing Hamm to do it. That's probably a good reason for everyone that isn't Stu Hamm to bring one to a session.

[john m]

Been playin' over 40 years.

I took a 5 string something as a partial trade.

It was an American model (someone's signature who I did not know-- not Marcus).

I had no problem getting what I needed when I sold it after one month- not my cup of tea.

I might like to own a passive P5 someday, for now, my two Elricks will do.

[drTSTingray]

Originally Posted by Scott in Dallas

For a studio musician, time is of the essence. The engineer is being paid to get a track down as quickly as possible, and telling a bass player to bring a standard bass is a courtesy that he doesn't have to extend. It has nothing to do with lazy, it has to do with time. One of the first pieces of advice a pro gives to a young session player is to always bring a couple of Fender basses to a session in case you're asked to use it, one with flats, one with rounds, etc.

Are you suggesting there are studio engineers who are unable to record adequately, say a Musicman, a Warwick, an Alembic, a Lakland, a Sadowsky etc etc? All of these are capable of achieving a 'generic' sound as well as any Fender bass in skilled hands. They generally can, of course do a lot more. The implication is:-

The engineer is limited in skill
They employ bass players who are not skilled
The engineer is lazy

Or are we saying people have preconceived ideas of what a bass track should sound like AND the instrument to achieve it? In response to this, I think we can all name at least 10 famous players, including the most famous, who have moulded and influenced much of the sound of pop music (eg McCartney, Wymann) who have rarely been near a Fender bass or are certainly not known extensively for it.

[Joe Nerve]

I play a fender jazz because one of the bands I play in is a zep tribute, and it's expected. My Big Al does the job perfectly, but it just felt blasphemous. Still not a fender fan, but I'm digging this particular jazz, one the antigua ones. Had lots of other fenders, hated them all except for my jaguar.

[Bassist4Eris]

I'm a small-time originals guy. I prefer to use instruments other than Fender precisely because they're so expected. I like to carve a more distinctive niche for myself, so I alternate between a Carvin 6-er and a Schecter 8-string.

But I do own a Fender. Some time last year I realized that all of my basses were of the bright, active, modern-sounding variety. I wanted one that was old-school. So I got a sunburst Precision and strung it with flats. It's fun to play around the house with, and if I ever got into doing covers again, or maybe joined up with a real rootsy band, I would definitely gig it.

But mainly I needed a P with flats so I could be cool on Talkbass

[Misterwogan]

Originally Posted by Scott in Dallas

That's probably a good reason for everyone that isn't Stu Hamm to bring one to a session.

Love that.

[Scott in Dallas]

Originally Posted by drTSTingray

Are you suggesting there are studio engineers who are unable to record adequately, say a Musicman, a Warwick, an Alembic, a Lakland, a Sadowsky etc etc? All of these are capable of achieving a 'generic' sound as well as any Fender bass in skilled hands. They generally can, of course do a lot more. The implication is:-

The engineer is limited in skill
They employ bass players who are not skilled
The engineer is lazy

Or are we saying people have preconceived ideas of what a bass track should sound like AND the instrument to achieve it? In response to this, I think we can all name at least 10 famous players, including the most famous, who have moulded and influenced much of the sound of pop music (eg McCartney) who have rarely been near a Fender bass.

I'm not "suggesting" anything, I'm explaining what countless session bassists have known and repeated for decades. You may not like it, but I can't help that. I'm not telling anyone what to play, I'm saying the story Stu Hamm relayed is not at all out of the ordinary.

When you're Paul McCartney, you can tell the engineer what to do because you're the product. When you're a no-name bass player scraping by doing sessions for a living, the track for the shampoo commercial is the product. You don't argue, you don't talk back, or you don't work.

[jason1980's]

The Fender Precision bass is my favorite and I play it mainly because of the tone of its high notes. I love how full, how loud, and how much it doesn't blend in the mix (how I set up my eq anyway). The notes are so smooth and really sing out up there and that is exactly what I look for when I go way up on the higher frets of the D and G strings.

I have tried actives and I cannot get the same results. Just like the Music Man Stingray 5 I recently had this month, I am in love with the thunderous earth shaking low end, but every time I go up really high it is completely out of texture. The notes are thin, no body to them at all, not smooth, they are rather twangy up there and that is even with me completely maxing out the mids on the SVT as much as possible, raising the high end of the pickup to the strings and lowering the low end of the pickup all the way down in the bass in attempts to compensate for the lacking high end and balance the highs and lows of the bass. But all efforts were for nothing, although it did help somewhat, the high notes were still weak and almost non existent in the mix. I sent it back and it has been replaced with a Fender American Precision because the P's are the best I have played that gets me exactly what I want out of the higher range of this instrument. I no longer have that problem now. Everybody is different, but this has been my experience with basses and why I will always favor a Fender P over others.

[lpdeluxe]

I started playing bass in '81, after playing lead guitar for 11 years. I went through several basses that were supposed to be good, but didn't satisfy. Then I bought a Fender and found that what I was looking for in playability, tone, and ergonomics was right there in front of me all along, in the form of P. I now have 3 ('51 single-coil RI, Classic '50s and an AV '57).

Do I play Precisions because it's expected? That's a funny question around here -- everybody else plays a black J with a rosewood board. So **I'm** the non-conformist. By the way, the engineer/manager at the local pro studio, who is an amazing bass player, plays a Jazz too.

[drTSTingray]

Originally Posted by Misterwogan

Very well told. I too prefer the feel of my SR HS - but, I just can't get it to work in P territory at all. Is this possible?

Your Ray should thump as well as any P bass (you can actually get them to thump better in some respects, especially recorded).

I find cobalt strings (which boost upper mids especially) plus tweaking upper mids a little on my amp, and turning down the treble sometimes, gets in the right territory. I use the on board mutes on the 2 band Classic as well (I have used a foam mute on my SR4HH also). Flatwound strings are also an eye opener on a Stingray. And plucking position can also influence this - I find plucking a Stingray between the pick up and neck gets a more vintagey sound. But this is just my preference - many people would bring a P bass - but then again they'd be lost on the Entwhistle stuff or the 80s songs.

I once took my Bongo to a 60s jam - I got asked to play several times and the bass sounded fine (indeed, to my ears, as good a fit if not better than a Hofner which also attended). I got some very strange comments - which didn't really bother me, but also lots of attention from some of the guys who are simply guitar enthusiasts and like any guitars so were keen to have a look at it/hold it etc.

[Misterwogan]

Originally Posted by jason1980's

The Fender Precision bass is my favorite and I play it mainly because of the tone of its high notes. I love how full, how loud, and how much it doesn't blend in the mix (how I set up my eq anyway). The notes are so smooth and really sing out up there and that is exactly what I look for when I go way up on the higher frets of the D and G strings.

I have tried actives and I cannot get the same results. Just like the Music Man Stingray 5 I recently had this month, I am in love with the thunderous earth shaking low end, but every time I go up really high it is completely out of texture. The notes are thin, no body to them at all, not smooth, they are rather twangy up there and that is even with me completely maxing out the mids on the SVT as much as possible, raising the high end of the pickup to the strings and lowering the low end of the pickup all the way down in the bass in attempts to compensate for the lacking high end and balance the highs and lows of the bass. But all efforts were for nothing, although it did help somewhat, the high notes were still weak and almost non existent in the mix. I sent it back and it has been replaced with a Fender American Precision because the P's are the best I have played that gets me exactly what I want out of the higher range of this instrument. I no longer have that problem now. Everybody is different, but this has been my experience with basses and why I will always favor a Fender P over others.

I buy all of that. The way I would put it is: the quality of the decay of P-Bass note is what makes it truly unique.

[Misterwogan]

Originally Posted by drTSTingray

Your Ray should thump as well as any P bass (you can actually get them to thump better in some respects, especially recorded).

I find cobalt strings (which boost upper mids especially) plus tweaking upper mids a little on my amp, and turning down the treble sometimes, gets in the right territory. I use the on board mutes on the 2 band Classic as well (I have used a foam mute on my SR4HH also). Flatwound strings are also an eye opener on a Stingray. And plucking position can also influence this - I find plucking a Stingray between the pick up and neck gets a more vintagey sound. But this is just my preference - many people would bring a P bass - but then again they'd be lost on the Entwhistle stuff or the 80s songs.

I once took my Bongo to a 60s jam - I got asked to play several times and the bass sounded fine (indeed, to my ears, as good a fit if not better than a Hofner which also attended).

Being an HS, to operate in P territory I switch it to position 4. And yes, sometimes it can do the business and them most times not. The big difference for me is not tone nor attack - but decay. There isn't another bass where the notes decay like a P, and that makes a big difference.

[LiquidMidnight]

Originally Posted by TigerInATrance

I've done auditions where they've wanted me in as long as next time I brought a Fender. When I mention that I really hate playing Fenders and don't own any, they tell me that I won't fit in with the look the band is going for. Then I ask about the playing and sound and always get a very positive response. Then there's the but. But we need the image to be right. Ok then, good luck to you...

It sounds like those bands were filled with idiots. I'll be the first one to tell you that image is important, but to dictate straight down to the brand of the instrument for "image" purposes unless you're in a tribute band is straight up asinine. I doubt people are gonna walk into the gig and say, "Oh no, that bass player is playing a G&L when this music clearly calls for a Fender Precision of between '67 - '72 vintage! What a posuer. Honey, we're leaving and going to a club that has a band who plays the 'right' instruments for their genre of music!"

If you're going to put effort into image, put effort into dressing well and looking fit. Extreme examples aside (e.g., playing a B.C. Rich Warlock in a bluegrass band), people aren't going to care that much about the look or brand of your instrument, so as long as it doesn't sound like crap.

I could walk into just about any gig that would call for a Fender, use my sunburst Carvin, and fit in both visually and sonically. That's why it's my main player.

[Misterwogan]

Originally Posted by LiquidMidnight

It sounds like those bands were filled with idiots. I'll be the first one to tell you that image is important, but to dictate straight down to the brand of the instrument for "image" purposes unless you're in a tribute band is straight up asinine. I doubt people are gonna walk into the gig and say, "Oh no, that bass player is playing a G&L when this music clearly calls for a Fender Precision of between '67 - '72 vintage! What a posuer. Honey, we're leaving and going to a club that has a band who plays the 'right' instruments for their genre of music!"

If you're going to put effort into image, put effort into dressing well and looking fit. Extreme examples aside (e.g., playing a B.C. Rich Warlock in a bluegrass band), people aren't going to care that much about the look or brand of your instrument, so as long as it doesn't sound like crap.

I could walk into just about any gig that would call for a Fender, use my sunburst Carvin, and fit in both visually and sonically. That's why it's my main player.

Clearly, you have the presence and charisma to do just that. A lot don't - and have to make do with what gifts they do have. If any, of course.

[Mr_Music90]

2 brands I don't like : Fender and Music Man.. So.. NO!!