Does Wood Grain Affect Anything?

[preside]

Originally Posted by Turnaround

So unless anyone has any other explanation as to why the "boutique" bass sounds better, I have to conclude that the wood makes the difference. I am willing to listen to reasonable suggestions.

That sounds like you have a lot of spare time and are very handy with a screwdriver But I must take issue with the word better. Is a fodera "better" than a Fender? I won't even go there

[C.Linton]

Yeah, however much you think the wood does or doesn't affect the tone, whether or not a particular species of wood sounds "better" than another, is totally subjective and wholly a matter of opinion, and IMO, shoulld not even be a part of the discussion.

[pacojas]

if you think wood does not matter,..

tap a tuning fork, press its handle on several different pieces of wood, then place your ear to said lumber. as you listen, begin to slide the fork across the surface of the wood. not only will different pieces affect the response curve, but different areas on the same piece will sound varied.

is the wood porous, solid,... does the grain curl or maintain a straight path, does the wood absorb or reflect the vibration?

wood matters a great deal, IMHO/E!!!!

[SurferJoe46]

we are at our most biased when we consider ourselves to be objective

.

[meatwad]

Originally Posted by preside

So let me get this straight, wood=hocus pocus, steel=all the difference in the world.

When pickups are translating the vibrations of said "steel" (I said strings, actually), then yes. And since the string is usually being played between two other pieces of metal (fret and saddle), I'd say "steel = all the difference in the world".

IMO, of course.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by pacojas

if you think wood does not matter,..

tap a tuning fork, press its handle on several different pieces of wood, then place your ear to said lumber. as you listen, begin to slide the fork across the surface of the wood. not only will different pieces affect the response curve, but different areas on the same piece will sound varied.

is the wood porous, solid,... does the grain curl or maintain a straight path, does the wood absorb or reflect the vibration?

wood matters a great deal, IMHO/E!!!!

Quite a reproducible test.
It's almost ignorant to think that the muting or accentuation of string vibration wouldn't affect what the pickups pick up. Of course the pickups don't pickup wood vibration. Was that too obvious?

[megafiddle]

Originally Posted by pacojas

if you think wood does not matter,..

tap a tuning fork, press its handle on several different pieces of wood, then place your ear to said lumber. as you listen,

begin to slide the fork across the surface of the wood. not only will different pieces affect the response curve, but different

areas on the same piece will sound varied.

is the wood porous, solid,... does the grain curl or maintain a straight path, does the wood absorb or reflect the vibration?

wood matters a great deal, IMHO/E!!!!

That's what I believe.

It's not magic. The energy of the vibration has to come from somewhere, namely the string. The more
energy that's absorbed, the less energy that will remain in the string. And that translates directly into
sustain. Also, if different frequencies are absorbed, then different frequencies will remain in the string,
and that translates into tone.

A vibrating string produces very little acoustic sound itself. It's surface area is simply too small. Any sound
you hear from the bass acoustically, has been transferred to the body from the string. The very hard finish
that is typical on basses (and on the same body style) makes them all similar in radiation. So the main
difference in sound is due to the difference in transferred energy. If two basses sound different acoustically,
then whatever remains in the string must also be different.

Absorbed sound is simply lost as heat. If not lost, it might be ratiated as sound. Or it could be resonant, and
return the energy to the string at some certain frequency.

It gets more complicated. A pickup senses the movement (vibration) of the string relative to itself. This also
means that a pickup can sense movement of itself relative to the string. If the body is vibrating, the pickup
will sense it!.

[tabdog]

Originally Posted by meatwad

I would contribute 99% of the difference to strings. Identical strings? Then their age, wear, and setup. Much more a tone factor than wood on any electric solidbody instrument, IMO.

After over 30 years of playing bass,
I know a thing or two about strings.
It sounds to me, you are grabbing
at straws.

Most bass players know enough to
know what I said is obvious,

Tabdog

[tabdog]

Sometimes wood effects tone so much that
dead spots result.

You can change strings, pickups, bridge, nut,
tuners and probably no results.

Change the wooden neck and wala! It's fixed.

It's a no-brainer.

It is obvious to me that wood does have an
effect on the tone of an electric bass.

Tabdog

[SoVeryTired]

I have nothing to add to the debate except to say that tabdog's posts read like haikus due to the random line breaks. But the word you're looking for is 'voila'.

I'm going to start posting
like this. I think it makes my
writing seem somehow more
mystical.

[tjh]

.. absolutely no dog in the wood/sound debate, as I have basswood, alder, and agathis basses, and I can EQ, foam mute, or re-string any to get what I am after ...

.. however, wood grain CAN have an affect on the basses value ... or rather maybe grain PATTERNS that is ... more specificly if bodies show the grain, and are poorly matched ... I have bought/sold/seen natural finished basses (3TSB also)that were definitely more desirable and sometimes carried more value with either very unique grain, or perfectly matched grain, over very poorly matched grain patterns ...

... you see folk all the time comment on 'one piece' or 'two piece' bodies, etc ... so the aesthetics of the grain definitely can come into play for the basses appeal, and quite possibly value ... so in that respect, I dont think the importance of wood grain can be completely negated by anyone ... JMHO

[tabdog]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

I have nothing to add to the debate except to say that tabdog's posts read like haikus due to the random line breaks. But the word you're looking for is 'voila'.

I'm going to start posting
like this. I think it makes my
writing seem somehow more
mystlica.

Thanks for thinking I'm "mystlica",
I guess???


Actually it's just a continuation of
the way I wrote professionally
for over forty years as a "mystlica"
land surveyor. We had to compact
our notes in small books.

I think your childish personal
affront is humorous and I'll
never be as cool as you,

Tabdog

[Testing123]

This might be a good time to point out the SCRAP LUMBER BASS vs. ALDER BASS - Can You Tell The Difference?? thread for those that have not seen it.
Have a listen and decide for yourself.

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by tabdog

Thanks for thinking I'm "mystlica",
I guess???


Actually it's just a continuation of
the way I wrote professionally
for over forty years as a "mystlica"
land surveyor. We had to compact
our notes in small books.

I think your childish personal
affront is humorous and I'll
never be as cool as you,

Tabdog

I'm not sure where you
got my spelling mistake from
as it wasn't in my post and
I haven't edited it.

But I'll never be as cool as
me either.

[SoVeryTired]

I was going to add my thoughts on the effect of wood on tone, but that's not really the aim of the thread. So, grain... stability, according to some, although I've not yet experienced an instrument with instability to comment. I think that it's an aesthetic impact more than anything else.

[chadds]

Grain does matter.

Two many laminations mute tone. The many properties of wood enhance or diminish frequencies.

The hippie sandwich was of spoken of in the early BP article about wood and tone. Too many layers mute wood's effect. They also said glue has limited sonic capabilities.
Good article. Those misguided myth builders Tobias, Fbass, Alembic, Sadowski etc. state it's significance. All state it's one aspect of tone propagation.

[meatwad]

I believe one could listen to sound bytes of different basses, and successfully determine that "this is a Jazz with flats" or "that one is a Precision with stainless steel rounds", for example.

I do not believe however, in a blind taste test, one could determine "that Jazz has an ash body", or, "this one is a P Bass with a maple fingerboard", without it being a lucky guess. Therefore, wood is NOT the defacto element in a bass' tone. Again, IMO.

[SurferJoe46]

Originally Posted by chadds

Grain does matter.

Two many laminations mute tone. The many properties of wood enhance or diminish frequencies.

The hippie sandwich was of spoken of in the early BP article about wood and tone. Too many layers mute wood's effect. They also said glue has limited sonic capabilities.
Good article. Those misguided myth builders Tobias, Fbass, Alembic, Sadowski etc. state it's significance. All state it's one aspect of tone propagation.

I've got a really cheap (free) bass that I rebuilt and defretted and it has about a zillion laminations of wood in it's plywood body.

My point: it is a sweet sounding bass. Even with all those 'resonant' and 'harmonic' layers and not forgetting: the glue - it has no significant difference in tone-voice-harmonics-sustain nor playability than any other bass I own.

Of course - it is fretless so it has that certain wowee sound that a non fretted instrument will have. But I cannot say that there's any evidence that the multiple layers of glue is causing any loss of tone. It sounds like a Precision without any frets. That's it - that's all.

Your: "Tobias, Fbass, Alembic, Sadowski etc. state it's significance. All state it's one aspect of tone propagation."

...still leaves me standing pat on my observation that this is the same mystique that keeps selling their instruments.

If they say 'it's the wood' (and they really DO build a pretty bass) and it costs as much as it does to the buyer, then the buyer will parrot the same sentiment.

The buyer'd have to state it unequivocally is so --- or they would have to admit they fell prey to the marketing ploy.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by meatwad

I believe one could listen to sound bytes of different basses, and successfully determine that "this is a Jazz with flats" or "that one is a Precision with stainless steel rounds", for example.

I do not believe however, in a blind taste test, one could determine "that Jazz has an ash body", or, "this one is a P Bass with a maple fingerboard", without it being a lucky guess. Therefore, wood is NOT the defacto element in a bass' tone. Again, IMO.

Almost every discussion states that wood is an element not "the" element in a basses tone.

[meatwad]

Originally Posted by SurferJoe46

I've got a really cheap (free) bass that I rebuilt and defretted and it has about a zillion laminations of wood in it's plywood body.

My point: it is a sweet sounding bass. Even with all those 'resonant' and 'harmonic' layers and not forgetting: the glue - it has no significant difference in tone-voice-harmonics-sustain nor playability than any other bass I own.

Of course - it is fretless so it has that certain wowee sound that a non fretted instrument will have. But I cannot say that there's any evidence that the multiple layers of glue is causing any loss of tone. It sounds like a Precision without any frets. That's it - that's all.

Your: "Tobias, Fbass, Alembic, Sadowski etc. state it's significance. All state it's one aspect of tone propagation."

...still leaves me standing pat on my observation that this is the same mystique that keeps selling their instruments.

If they say 'it's the wood' (and they really DO build a pretty bass) and it costs as much as it does to the buyer, then the buyer will parrot the same sentiment.

The buyer'd have to state it unequivocally is so --- or they would have to admit they fell prey to the marketing ploy.

I have a neck-through hippie sandwich Tobias, and still firmly believe I see and feel all that beautiful wood, but I'm hearing my fingers on the strings, through the pickups.