Fender custom shop really that good?

[WannaJazz]

http://mikelull.com/site/instruments/basses/basses.html

[bassbully]

I'm a Fender guy and was excited to finally play a couple of CS P basses a few years ago. I was even looking to trade my 78' P towards one. IMO they were not worth the money over a MIA etc...not even close but that's me.

[boristhespider9]

Lakland USA would be my preference if you want to spend that kind of money. You can get a new Joe Osborn or Bob Glaub for about $2800-2900 from Bass Central. You can get a Glaub with a 1.5, 1.625, or 1.75 neck. Most Fender CS necks I've seen still have gloss finishes -- the Lakland USA necks are to die for. Lakland will also honor requests for the bass to be lightweight. Otherwise you can buy 2.5 2012 American Standards for that amount and also be happy.

[okc-zee]

IMO, no..The CS's are very nice,but the AVRI's are really sweet as well ...I owned a 59 CS for a while and wound up selling it for something else...I now own a new AVRI 62 P and it's a killer and a keeper...I honestly don't see the extra money on the CS ,or at least the one that I had...I always wondered why you see so many of the CS's up for sale all of the time...Then I bought one anyway and wound up selling mine as well...I understand they may be a bit more consistent in their workmanship,but at the end of the day they are still albeit, a very well made copy of the original basic Fender P bass,as are the AVRI's... If you look around I'd bet you find an AVRI that speaks to you,and feels just as nice for half the cost...This being said is not to take away from the many many guys here that own them and love them...And their opinions are every bit as valid as mine as well...some of the new AVRI's are amazing..but again,this is just my honest worthless opinion...

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by glutah

Are they? I have 2700 saved for a p-bass but saw just a plain 57 RI P-bass on ebay for a thousand. Are the CS basses that much better? Thanks for the input

I'd say it would be a good option if you absolutely had to have a Fender but with some particular feature to it. I.e. if you were gigging for a living and the gig required a Fender P or J or etc. but you really need either a particular feature or you want something better than the off-the-shelf instruments.

On the other hand, if you're thinking "I want a jazz or a precision, but I just want it not to be an FMIC jazz or precision", then you're thinking _exactly_ the way the entire P/J clone industry has thought, very successfully, for many decades now.

This is not a new dilemma; it's been around ever since there's been an FMIC, so take heart.

In this case, taking advantage of that and going with something else is the far better option. Because there's an entire industry out there designed specifically to address this need.

I.e. I considered the CS thing about 15 years ago. I wanted a fretless but with a jazz-dimensioned unlined neck. But I also didn't quite want a jazz bass - they had terrible balance, the sound was a little too nasally or muddy and required too much hammering on the right hand to get a decent sound even with the frets off. I thought about a Precision, but didn't like that sound either and their balance is even worse, and so on. I just kept ending up in a corner with Fender; each had some of what I wanted, but also with something else I didn't - crappy hardware or build quality that, at that time, really plagued the FMIC stuff, ergonomic problems, muddy sound and so on.

So, at the end of the day, I ended up better off with the L2000 I eventually found at a local shop in Austin, TX and for about half the cost of a FMIC CS Fender. It had the unlined board, the jazz-dimensioned neck, but better pickups and hardware all around. It was made out of good wood with a near-perfect neck/body joint. It also balances on the knee and on the strap partly because of the heavy ash body and the aluminum tuning pegs. The bi-cut neck never warps and it sounds brilliant especially through an amp. I still have it and it's on my knee right now as I type this in fact . And best yet, it's a true Fender.

So it kind of depends on what your thought process is. If it just must be a _Fender_ Fender and very high build quality, go CS. If you want a P or J but you just don't want it to be a _FMIC_ P or J, go with something else. The P/J-like market has some outstanding basses out there for reasonable costs that'll get you out of that hole. Sadowsky, Lakland, and on and on, all of them are superb instruments...

LS

[bassdude51]

Spending the big bucks on a Fender CS bass or any bass is not as expensive as we might think. Taking into account inflation, to spend around $2,500 in today's money for a new bass is the same as it was back in 1962 to spend around $325 for a new Fender bass.

If it was 1962 right now, most of us would not hesitate to spend around $300 for a Fender Bass.

But to spend $2,500 on a Custom Shop bass in 2012/13 is pretty much the same "shell out" as it was in the 50s and 60s for a new Fender Bass.

On the other hand, $600 for a MIM Fender bass is like spending $90 back then. And a Fender Squier at $199 is like spending $26 back then.

Back in 1966, the cheapest new bass I ever saw was $99 at a Woolworths store in Columbus, Ohio. For me to have bought that bass with my paper route money would have been like spending $750.

The price for bass guitars is now cheaper than ever before!

http://www.davemanuel.com/inflation-calculator.php

A Fender Custom Shop bass will pretty much blow away any pre-CBS Fender bass that was made back then. As wonderful as all of those real deal vintage basses were back then and the ones that exist today, their quality doesn't compare with the Custom Shop, Lakland, Sadowsky and other high end basses of today.

So, get yourself a nice bass! It's a bargain!

IMHO

[funk7856]

The best fenders I have played are the '64CS & '59CS I own today. That said, I would not have bought them for their listed price. Buy USED!

Originally Posted by glutah

Are they? I have 2700 saved for a p-bass but saw just a plain 57 RI P-bass on ebay for a thousand. Are the CS basses that much better? Thanks for the input

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by bassdude51

A Fender Custom Shop bass will pretty much blow away any pre-CBS Fender bass that was made back then.

Actually, anything is better than a pre-CBS Fender (i.e. listen to Carol Kaye's complaints in some of her interviews about how crappy those things were when she had to play them back then). An off-the-shelf new P or J is better. Even an MIM is better. A Squire is better...
Maybe the 70's instruments were worse than the pre-CBS stuff, but that's kind of like differentiating 1000 kicks in the crotch from 1200.

Like I said, the entire clone industry was spawned by FMIC's QC for almost the entire time there's been an FMIC. Leo Fender got it right, but FMIC did not, until about 2008 or 9 (that's partly why he went on to create MM and then G&L).

Anyway, don't get sparkly-eyed about the old Fender stuff; it's truly awful (my arms still hurt from playing that stuff back when I was starting out). And _don't_ pay those collector prices for them above all, unless you're specifically a collector. Not if you actually want to gig with it that is.

LS

[Margus Alviste]

Get a Road Worn P and you have one of the greatest P-basses ever made plus a lot of cash to spend on other GAS items.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by unclejane

Actually, anything is better than a pre-CBS Fender (i.e. listen to Carol Kaye's complaints in some of her interviews about how crappy those things were when she had to play them back then). An off-the-shelf new P or J is better. Even an MIM is better. A Squire is better...
Maybe the 70's instruments were worse than the pre-CBS stuff, but that's kind of like differentiating 1000 kicks in the crotch from 1200.

Like I said, the entire clone industry was spawned by FMIC's QC for almost the entire time there's been an FMIC. Leo Fender got it right, but FMIC did not, until about 2008 or 9 (that's partly why he went on to create MM and then G&L).

Anyway, don't get sparkly-eyed about the old Fender stuff; it's truly awful (my arms still hurt from playing that stuff back when I was starting out). And _don't_ pay those collector prices for them above all, unless you're specifically a collector. Not if you actually want to gig with it that is.

LS

I could not disagree more with the above - to paraphrase:

Squier > MIM Fender > pre CBS Fender > '70s Fender

I gotta ask - what are you smoking already this morning???


- georgestrings

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

I could not disagree more with the above - to paraphrase:

Squier > MIM Fender > pre CBS Fender > '70s Fender

I gotta ask - what are you smoking already this morning???

If you believe the ">" should be "<" in your equation there, you're the one that's been smoking, not me....

Because they're collector's items now, the old Fenders have a lot of folklore around them, the main one being this myth about them being practically made of gold or something.

But the truth is, even the foreign made modern FMIC instruments are vastly better than the old stuff. The MIA's of today are now the best instruments FMIC has ever made period. I've lost count of the 70's P's and J's I've played personally and I recall using a friend's pre-CBS Jazz for a couple sessions when I was right out of high school. He was so proud of it, but that thing was absolutely awful - it weighed a ton and you could slop the neck around in the pocket just by leaning on it wrong lol. And the sound.... oh the sound.... my ears are still ringing...

I owned a 70's jazz in college and that was the worst bass I've ever owned.

It's your money so do what you want, but on the old collectors's items, Caveat Emptor!

LS

[bassdude51]

Originally Posted by unclejane

Actually, anything is better than a pre-CBS Fender (i.e. listen to Carol Kaye's complaints in some of her interviews about how crappy those things were when she had to play them back then). An off-the-shelf new P or J is better. Even an MIM is better. A Squire is better...
Maybe the 70's instruments were worse than the pre-CBS stuff, but that's kind of like differentiating 1000 kicks in the crotch from 1200.

Like I said, the entire clone industry was spawned by FMIC's QC for almost the entire time there's been an FMIC. Leo Fender got it right, but FMIC did not, until about 2008 or 9 (that's partly why he went on to create MM and then G&L).

Anyway, don't get sparkly-eyed about the old Fender stuff; it's truly awful (my arms still hurt from playing that stuff back when I was starting out). And _don't_ pay those collector prices for them above all, unless you're specifically a collector. Not if you actually want to gig with it that is.

LS

You are 100% correct. I wanted to say it also but I was afraid to. For some, to criticize pre-CBS Fenders is like to curse God.

Yep, most MIMs and Squires are better made than those old Fenders. It hurts to say that.

But those old vintage Fenders are soooo cool! Like a 50s Chevy or Ford.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by bassdude51

You are 100% correct. I wanted to say it also but I was afraid to. For some, to criticize pre-CBS Fenders is like to curse God.

Yep, most MIMs and Squires are better made than those old Fenders. It hurts to say that.

But those old vintage Fenders are soooo cool! Like a 50s Chevy or Ford.

Well, I'm old and remember the days when those were our only choices when we couldn't afford a Rick 4001 or 4005 instead. So I can't be convinced about the hype; I was there .

But there's just no comparison to the modern Fenders. Especially in just the last few years the FMIC basses are really outstanding. I.e. look at this:

http://www.fender.com/products/ameri...dard-jazz-bass

It's got a good bridge on it, a good finish, the wood is good quality, etc. I played a couple of these here and there at a GC and even with the GC abuse and neglect, in about 30 seconds I could see how well-made it was. Neck didn't move around, good hardware, well built and yeah it still sounded like a jazz bass but it definitely had a clearer sound than any other older jazz I'd ever played or owned.

I'm not a Fender guy since I can get something more suitable for me elsewhere for the same money, but if I had to get an actual FMIC, there's just no other choice than a new one.... We're in the Good Old Days of Fender now, not back then....

LS

[pacojas]

get off your horse, unclejane!

[wfmandmusic]

Originally Posted by BIGEJ2

I had a '57 RI in white blonde. At the time, I was debating CS. The RI was so good I decided to pass on the CS. Here we are maybe 3 months later. The RI has been replaced by a CS. The CS is that much better on all levels. Whether it's worth the extra money to you is completely up to you.

+1
I have had many AVRIs. Some were really good and some just okay. I like these better than the new US made standard models. Then I went Custom Shop. The first P I got did not speak to me so I sent it back. The second one was a little better so I kept it. The playability on both of these were better than any Fender I ever played. The fit, finish, and fret work are awesome. As far as the sound goes, you can get the same from any P with the right electronics in it. But it's hard to match the feel and playability of a CS. I actually put DiMarzio pickups in my 64 CS P bass. It's just a different sound. I have a set of 60s CS P bass pickups in another P bass I have. I tried really hard to build a P bass that was as good as a CS. I came really close to the playability and nailed the sound. But in the end, it was just not as good. I bought a used CS 64 Jazz bass. It is by far the best Jazz style bass for sound and playability I have had. I will never sell this bass. If you just play one, you will know.

[tastybasslines]

Originally Posted by Jason Brown

I've owned 2 Custom Shop Ps and 5 or 6 AVs. Both CS basses were top notch. Very stable necks and in both cases the bodies appeared to be one piece.

My Highway One P has a one piece body, and 2 graphite rods in the neck for stability. In fact, I haven't had to adjust the truss rod once since I got it almost 2 years ago.

I find it hard to believe that you are getting THAT much more than a single person or 2 with expert bass pedigrees looking over your bass instead of line employees. Outside of the parts used in the bass or extravagant finishes, perhaps they inspect most things with a little more detail, or hand rub the neck or look for the tightest neck pocket possible...outside of that, my educated guess is not much else is going on.

I'll admit that I don't know what really* goes into it, but this is my impression and belief.

[Lowbrow]

1) I think we can agree that the '62 precision is among the best basses Fender ever offered - this is the model for '62 AVRI, which should speak to the bass' status.

2) I for 13 years possessed and regularly played an original '62 precision. It has since been reclaimed by the friend who had loaned it to me :-(.

3) Last year I got a Mexico-made Road Worn precision, and, aside from the maple board, it is in every way indistinguishable in the quality, feel, sound and overall 'essence' of the '62. I would never have believed it myself if it did not happen to me.

4) Is the CS worth it? Let's just say a great example of a great fender bass can be had for much less.

[Dbassmon]

Originally Posted by Lowbrow

1)Is the CS worth it? Let's just say a great example of a great fender bass can be had for much less.

CS is made by the most talented and experienced guys at Fender. Wood is chosen carefully and attention to detail at highest level.

That being said, Lowbrow is correct, the level of Fender quality is very high and if look, you can find a stock instrument that will get you where you want to go at normal Fender prices.

[jasper383]

I would guess that the basses coming out of the Custom Shop today are the very best, most consistently made Fenders ever. Technology is just so much better than it ever has been.

Could you get a masterpiece bass in the 50s and 60s from Fender? Sure, but I would be willing to bet your chances of getting a dog were a LOT higher then.

I think there's a lot of "survivorship bias" with old Fenders. The ones that are still around intact today are the "winners", with lots and lots of others being long ago scrapped/parted out/etc.

[lx_night]

I think that if you record both basses on the studio with or without a band, no one will be able to tell which is which.

That being said, save the 1k and put it in to some more gear. That what i would do.

I say that because a friend of mine has a japanese RI 75 Jazz that has great tone and was built great and felt better than other bases he or i had.