Fender decals on not-really-Fender basses

[wvbass]

Originally Posted by paradog

anyone wants an ice cream cone?

With sprinkles?

[paradog]

Originally Posted by wvbass

With sprinkles?

Did you clean your room?

[ImaStupidBaby]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

Putting one's own name on a headstock shouldn't be all that embarrassing. Take it from someone whose last name is synonymous with wiener.

.

What if your last name is Fender?

What then?

[wvbass]

Originally Posted by paradog

Did you clean your room?

No, but I took out the trash.

[Sgt. Rock]

Originally Posted by Turock

Obviously, you don't use mine or Webster's.

So throwing a Fender logo on the face while leaving the Squier logo and serial number *clearly* visible on the back of the headstock, as well as installing hardware and other upgrades that actually affects how the instrument plays and sounds (well above the price point of a Squier), in a configuration never offered on any original line-produced Fender product is "producing a counterfeit"? Really?

By that logic, Hasbro should be prosecuted for counterfeiting U.S. currency in the production of Monopoly, since each "bill" has a stated dollar value printed right on it.

If you guys want to be consistent in your thinking that it is wrong to misrepresent a bass, for any reason, as something that it isn't, you'd better start criticizing anyone for swapping out anything but strings. Hipshot tuners and bridge on a Squier=counterfeit. Fender repainted to match a couch=counterfeit. See how fast that gets ridiculous?

Also, I note that no one has yet, to my knowledge anyway, professed a belief that it is wrong to go in the other direction. What if a trust-fund kid has a custom shop P bass that sounds and plays *perfect* for him, but he wants punk credibility for a particular gig so he cosmetically alters his Fender to masquerade as a beat up Squier, complete with decal? Would you feel as strongly that he has done something wrong? He has after all produced a "counterfeit".

[Sgt. Rock]

Originally Posted by rockinrayduke

"I'm a fancy man and I have lots of fancy things."



Now there's a great sig line right there.

Read it as Thurston Howell for full effect.

[BobaFret]

A lot of people these days don't think it's stealing when they get music for free either. In the end, you shouldn't promote things to be something they aren't. I wouldn't say they are terrible people or anything for doing it, but I would not.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock

So throwing a Fender logo on the face while leaving the Squier logo and serial number *clearly* visible on the back of the headstock, as well as installing hardware and other upgrades that actually affects how the instrument plays and sounds (well above the price point of a Squier), in a configuration never offered on any original line-produced Fender product is "producing a counterfeit"? Really?

By that logic, Hasbro should be prosecuted for counterfeiting U.S. currency in the production of Monopoly, since each "bill" has a stated dollar value printed right on it.

If you guys want to be consistent in your thinking that it is wrong to misrepresent a bass, for any reason, as something that it isn't, you'd better start criticizing anyone for swapping out anything but strings. Hipshot tuners and bridge on a Squier=counterfeit. Fender repainted to match a couch=counterfeit. See how fast that gets ridiculous?

Also, I note that no one has yet, to my knowledge anyway, professed a belief that it is wrong to go in the other direction. What if a trust-fund kid has a custom shop P bass that sounds and plays *perfect* for him, but he wants punk credibility for a particular gig so he cosmetically alters his Fender to masquerade as a beat up Squier, complete with decal? Would you feel as strongly that he has done something wrong? He has after all produced a "counterfeit".

You really don't understand what you're talking about - which is weird because I'm sure this information has already been addressed in 500+ posts. The Hasbro comparison is indication of that.

"Fender" is a logo that is trademarked. Counterfeiting is not a quality issue but a trademark issue. It just gets portrayed most of in the form of companies who want to retain their quality by chasing people who are counterfeiting their name. The protection of a trademark is not only limited to quality but also to disinformation - willfully portraying something as something it is not.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by BobaFret

A lot of people these days don't think it's stealing when they get music for free either. In the end, you shouldn't promote things to be something they aren't. I wouldn't say they are terrible people or anything for doing it, but I would not.

Yep - and eventually when the industry melts away and nobody wants to take the risk of producing expensive music for charity then everyone will look around and say, "hey, maybe stealing wasn't such a good idea after all..."

[Sgt. Rock]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

You really don't understand what you're talking about - which is weird because I'm sure this information has already been addressed in 500+ posts.

"Fender" is a logo that is trademarked. Counterfeiting is not a quality issue but a trademark issue. It just gets portrayed most of in the form of companies who want to retain their quality by chasing people who are counterfeiting their name.

I do understand, but perhaps I'm not being clear. I understand the legal issue; that's not what I'm addressing. I'm talking about the thinking process where a person comes to believe that it is somehow morally wrong to swap a decal, but only in one direction.

[Turock]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock

I do understand, but perhaps I'm not being clear. I understand the legal issue; that's not what I'm addressing. I'm talking about the thinking process where a person comes to believe that it is somehow morally wrong to swap a decal, but only in one direction.

You've seen someone displaying this "thinking process"?

[Sgt. Rock]

Originally Posted by Turock

You've seen someone displaying this "thinking process"?

Yeah, maybe I do give too much credit.

[Kmay]

So, I have read about 19 pages of this, can't read anymore. So I don't know if this statement has already been said or not, but here is my opinion.
I am 26. Started playing music in a small scene before moving to Nashville. Name does, unfortunately, matter. I have never replaced a decal for something it wasn't, but I have removed decals because it was an off brand bass. Just used sand paper and sanded it off.
I have auditioned for gigs with my bases, and epiphone thunderbird and a Schecter 5 string.
Never much slack on the Schecter. But everyone I pull the thunderbird out, I get asked "is that the Gibson?" And instantly it makes you feel inferior. I agree that it should not matter and if a band is going to persecute you for having a foreign made instrument, them who needs them? Well, when they are going to pay you and call on you for future gigs, I need them. Lol!
Most pro situations like that require you to have quality, reliable gear.
If you modded it and have been through hell with it, then you (personally) know your, lets say first act from target, will never let you down, but the guy hiring you...does he know? Probably not. He doesn't wasn't to hire someone with iffy hear that could break in the middle of his show case. So yeah, names matter. Some names are known for quality instruments, some are not.
Just my thoughts...

[Rockin Mike]

If it ain't a Fender, don't label it Fender.
Same moral precedent as plagiarism, fraud, counterfeiting or other types of con games.

If you want something that says Fender, buy one. The MIMs are really not that expensive.

[brad houser]

I like the fact that my hotrod Squier precision 5 says Squier on the headstock. a lot.

[Sgt. Rock]

Originally Posted by brad houser

I like the fact that my hotrod Squier precision 5 says Squier on the headstock. a lot.

LOL. This is the point where anyone really invested in this rather silly discussion will just bang their head. Considering the rather poor quality of the Fender decals that just showed up in the mail, I might end up putting a Squier logo on the damn thing anyway. I kind of like the idea of the Squier logo on a souped up bass that catches one's eye from across the room. Totally serious here.

[JACink]

So... my question is... when I store my Squier inside a Fender case/gig bag... am I counterfeiting until I open said bag/case???



(when will they start making squier bags and cases?)

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by JACink

So... my question is... when I store my Squier inside a Fender case/gig bag... am I counterfeiting until I open said bag/case???



(when will they start making squier bags and cases?)

That joke makes no sense.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock

I do understand, but perhaps I'm not being clear. I understand the legal issue; that's not what I'm addressing. I'm talking about the thinking process where a person comes to believe that it is somehow morally wrong to swap a decal, but only in one direction.

No, you were very clear. You made a comparison to Hasbro and their monopoly money - which doesn't make sense. How are they counterfeiting American money? With the Arabic numerals that have existed for millenia? With the mustached man on the face? You do realize the U.S. Mint doesn't have a trademark or patent on putting a face on money - yes?

I haven't read the thread - but if you're addressing a specific person they seem to not be around anymore. The reason you aren't making sense is because 99.9% of all the counterfeiting in this specific realm is taking an "inferior" instrument and counterfeiting it to look like what can be considered a "superior" instrument.


EDIT: I just read your last few comments and you aren't even consistent in your own procession of thoughts. The last comment I addressed was very specific - I'm not sure why you are talking about the "other direction". You created a straw man and are now attacking it.

[bolophonic]

Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock

So throwing a Fender logo on the face while leaving the Squier logo and serial number *clearly* visible on the back of the headstock, as well as installing hardware and other upgrades that actually affects how the instrument plays and sounds (well above the price point of a Squier), in a configuration never offered on any original line-produced Fender product is "producing a counterfeit"? Really?

By that logic, Hasbro should be prosecuted for counterfeiting U.S. currency in the production of Monopoly, since each "bill" has a stated dollar value printed right on it.

If you guys want to be consistent in your thinking that it is wrong to misrepresent a bass, for any reason, as something that it isn't, you'd better start criticizing anyone for swapping out anything but strings. Hipshot tuners and bridge on a Squier=counterfeit. Fender repainted to match a couch=counterfeit. See how fast that gets ridiculous?

Also, I note that no one has yet, to my knowledge anyway, professed a belief that it is wrong to go in the other direction. What if a trust-fund kid has a custom shop P bass that sounds and plays *perfect* for him, but he wants punk credibility for a particular gig so he cosmetically alters his Fender to masquerade as a beat up Squier, complete with decal? Would you feel as strongly that he has done something wrong? He has after all produced a "counterfeit".

Putting a Fender logo on a Squier or any non-Fender brand bass is always lame. Nobody has ever said that upgrading the bridge or tuners on a bass equals counterfeiting a Fender, so save your breath on that argument.