Fender to Expand in China

[atomicdog]

The notion that Fender's announcement means that the Ensenada plant is closing down is pure conjecture. The company flew media from all over the world to Ensenada last summer to mark the 25th anniversary of that plant and has always expressed great pride in the operation (it's up to management to allow the workers to dress the frets, so let's not blame the help for those raggedy edges). http://www.premierguitar.com/Magazin...o_Factory.aspx

[wvbass]

Well, somebody sure has their panties in a bunch. Threads like this are funny. Fender announces a new office in China, and TB decides they are closing the factory in Mexico. Look at events in the past year; Fender is just trying to survive. That's why they ave so many different, budget-mided models. That's why they are opening new offices and trying to tap into emerging markets. If they can't grow, then they won't survive.

[etechstan]

China has different import laws than the US and in many cases will only allow Chinese manufactured products to be sold within their borders. Fender obviously needs a bigger market due to their recent IPO mistakes and the poor performance of some of the companies they own outright or the licenses to. I doubt EVH is a big money winner.

[bassplayer8953]

Originally Posted by Wyattsgroove

Just out of curiosity, what happened to the modern player series? I saw one at a shop but then ..... No more. Are they still around?
These were CIC. Did fender drop the line or are they still being mfd?

Again just curious.

WG.

Modern player series is still in the catalog. Not sure which model you're referring to, but here's an example of a guitar:

http://www.fender.com/guitars/teleca...inline-deluxe/

...and fwiw, it looked to me like they were opening a promotional/retail operation in China. Not discussing more manufacturing there (although more sales would lead to more manufacturing. As another poster pointed out, the Chinese have laws to protect their markets from foreign manufactured competition. Something the US should pay attention to, IMO)

[Diesel Kilgore]

America, Mexico, China, Japan, Indonesia......who cares. They already build there and market there. We live in a more globally based economy. Buy whichever you like. QC is not going to be noticeable to the masses.

Buying a USA Fender is always better. For MANY reasons. But in this day and age buy what you like and can afford. I dont care where it comes from as long as it performs and isnt raping my wallet.

[atomicdog]

Thanks for posting the link to that SEC prospectus, David281189--I think folks forge that Fender already depends on China to manufacture some of its parts, including tubes. Regarding China: "We depend on Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) located in Asia to manufacture a significant portion of our products. In fiscal 2011, products manufactured by OEMs accounted for approximately 64.0% of our gross sales before discounts and allowances, including distributed brands, and 36.0% of our gross sales before discounts and allowances of our owned brands. In certain of our product lines, we are dependent on a single manufacturer to produce those products. . . . We rely on our manufacturing facilities in Arizona, California, Connecticut, South Carolina and Mexico, and OEMs in China, India, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand and Vietnam to produce our products, and we rely on our distribution facilities in California, Kentucky, Tennessee, the Netherlands and Canada to manage our inventory and ship our products."

That report says this about the importance of the Mexico operation: "We are currently expanding our Mexican plant capability to operate as a cost-effective alternative to some of our OEM capacity in Asia."

But it also has this rather startling disclosure about poor quality control: "We rely on our OEMs to maintain production quality that meets our standards. Our OEMs may not continue to produce products that are consistent with our standards as a result of the use of lower-quality raw materials, changes in production methods, a shortage of qualified employees or poor financial condition. For example, as of December 31, 2011, more than 11,000 guitars manufactured by one of our OEMs had failed our quality control inspections because the OEM began using a lower-quality component without our permission, and several thousand additional guitars manufactured by that OEM may fail our inspections as well. Our quality control measures largely consist of inspecting samples of products shipped to us and visiting our OEMs. We do not, however, base any of our employees at these manufacturing sites. Our inspection methods may prove inadequate to detect defects in our products before they reach consumers. If OEMs do not maintain adequate quality control measures, or if the quality control inspection measures that we employ fail to detect quality control issues, our reputation and the value of our brands could be harmed, and we could incur increased returns and warranty expense, which would harm our business and operating results."

[David281189]

Originally Posted by atomicdog

Thanks for posting the link to that SEC prospectus, David281189--I think folks forge that Fender already depends on China to manufacture some of its parts, including tubes. Regarding China: "We depend on Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs) located in Asia to manufacture a significant portion of our products. In fiscal 2011, products manufactured by OEMs accounted for approximately 64.0% of our gross sales before discounts and allowances, including distributed brands, and 36.0% of our gross sales before discounts and allowances of our owned brands. In certain of our product lines, we are dependent on a single manufacturer to produce those products. . . . We rely on our manufacturing facilities in Arizona, California, Connecticut, South Carolina and Mexico, and OEMs in China, India, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Thailand and Vietnam to produce our products, and we rely on our distribution facilities in California, Kentucky, Tennessee, the Netherlands and Canada to manage our inventory and ship our products."

That report says this about the importance of the Mexico operation: "We are currently expanding our Mexican plant capability to operate as a cost-effective alternative to some of our OEM capacity in Asia."

But it also has this rather startling disclosure about poor quality control: "We rely on our OEMs to maintain production quality that meets our standards. Our OEMs may not continue to produce products that are consistent with our standards as a result of the use of lower-quality raw materials, changes in production methods, a shortage of qualified employees or poor financial condition. For example, as of December 31, 2011, more than 11,000 guitars manufactured by one of our OEMs had failed our quality control inspections because the OEM began using a lower-quality component without our permission, and several thousand additional guitars manufactured by that OEM may fail our inspections as well. Our quality control measures largely consist of inspecting samples of products shipped to us and visiting our OEMs. We do not, however, base any of our employees at these manufacturing sites. Our inspection methods may prove inadequate to detect defects in our products before they reach consumers. If OEMs do not maintain adequate quality control measures, or if the quality control inspection measures that we employ fail to detect quality control issues, our reputation and the value of our brands could be harmed, and we could incur increased returns and warranty expense, which would harm our business and operating results."

as everyone can see, the mexico factory becomes more and more valuable to fender.
thank you for taking the time to read this!

[mcm]

Gotta to go where the money is. And there isn't any here anymore

[Sgt. Rock]

Originally Posted by joelb79

Black humor?! wow.. And you assume that I don't understand the social-economic fire behind the whole issue? I guess I'm a poor slob too since I cannot typically afford American made instruments.

And you think that these people do not buy the instruments made by their own country? I see them playing American, Mexican, Chinese, Vietnamese, you name where they are made they are buying them in China with Chinese dollars. There is a huge market for all makes of guitars in Asia.

I understand the social economic reasons, I'm not ignoring them. I'm just not going to ignore the poor slob characterizations is all. That is highly offensive in the context you used it. You may think it was a passing shot and funny- but I'm not seeing it the same way as you. Maybe its the homelessness that my family of two kids is suffering. Maybe its the loss of job for the last 4 years. Maybe its the fact that people look at my family as poor snobs as they toss in their 10% in the collection plate. I have a low tolerance for name calling when it comes to money, and I'm sick of people who stare down their noses at me with my under $10k a year income playing music and SSDI.

Just because you have money and live in a country with a currency worth more does not mean that your life has more value than a person making a guitar in China. You may have meant this all tongue-in-cheek but your on an international forum calling people who you think cannot afford their own instruments poor slobs. Please remember that in the future. What if I was Asian? What if my skin color was black?

In 10 years, the tables could be turned. They could have the currency worth more than anybody else's and we could be the poor slobs. In fact, all bets are on the table for that one.

Wow is right. You completely missed the point, multiple times. I'd wager that you don't know what black humor is. I won't try to explain it to you because you're too wrapped up in righteous indignation to get the point.

Being offended is quickly becoming the new American National pastime. Everybody's doing it!

Factories in developing countries with emerging economies that produce goods exported to developed countries are not de facto exploitive. When your options are (A) earn nothing and watch your children starve or (B) work in a factory and earn significantly less than "enlightened" Westerners think you should make (but earn enough to survive and feed your kids), it's a pretty easy choice.

[JAUQO III-X]

A cargo of counterfeit Fenders and Gibsons from China were confiscated at Chicago's O'Hare airport just last week.



http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?sec...cal&id=8949202

[darkstorm]

Originally Posted by jeffbonny

If all those poor slobs were getting paid enough to afford to buy the crap they're making WE wouldn't be getting it at the bargain prices we are.

Lol true enough.

[atomicdog]

That is correct: the Modern Player series of basses and guitars are made in China.

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/...ic-bass-guitar

[Jazz Ad]

Originally Posted by joelb79

There is something about your post that seems highly offensive. I would have sworn you were American but.. I guess Exceptionalism runs deep in Canada too. Thing is assuming that your country and people are better than another country or people is very gross these days.

Using prejudice to denounce prejudices isn't a very good way to get heard.

[joelb79]

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Using prejudice to denounce prejudices isn't a very good way to get heard.

Probably was not right to use one; but in this case it was likely accurate. I'll work on my delivery next time.

Originally Posted by darkstorm

Lol true enough.

/smack forehead
/bites lip

Originally Posted by Sgt. Rock

Wow is right. You completely missed the point, multiple times. I'd wager that you don't know what black humor is. I won't try to explain it to you because you're too wrapped up in righteous indignation to get the point.

Being offended is quickly becoming the new American National pastime. Everybody's doing it!

Factories in developing countries with emerging economies that produce goods exported to developed countries are not de facto exploitive. When your options are (A) earn nothing and watch your children starve or (B) work in a factory and earn significantly less than "enlightened" Westerners think you should make (but earn enough to survive and feed your kids), it's a pretty easy choice.

Wagering on my stupidity? Righteous? All sorts of pleasant. Everybody take bets on the stupid! I must be stuck up self righteous according to you. Your retort is rather Ad-Hominem.

Regardless, to call them "poor slobs over there" is in error. I take offense to that. New American pastime? How about you stick your foot in your mouth there? I refuse to back down from voicing my opinion on this. There was no way to easily distinguish that the comment was made in good gesture for humor purposes only. I find it as an pejorative slur of an ethnic kind; and I would wager that is against talkbass rules.

/done with thread

[willbassyeah]

I don't think they will close fender mim but I think there is a huge chance that they will close their Japan factory. The mustang bass, fender bass vi are used to be made in Japan. But they move it to Mexico as you all know same thing with the geddy lee and some other signature bass that is used to be made in Japan.

[jeffbonny]

Originally Posted by joelb79

Probably was not right to use one; but in this case it was likely accurate. I'll work on my delivery next time.

No it wasn't at all accurate. I've tried to explain my turn of phrase and my honestly held sentiments but you've got it very stuck in your head that I think people in the so called 3rd world aren't my equal. You're being as prejudiced and unreasonable as the the fantasy ****head you think I am.

So just to be 100% clear about the two turns of phase you've taken exception to I would without hesitation (and quite likely at some point have) referred to MYSELF as a "poor slob" when I've been taken advantage of and had to eat it because I needed the money. No sense of superiority there only genuine commiseration.

The other term "crap" is simple honesty. Ever been in a Wallmart? Many "offshore" goods are at best mediocre. This is changing and there are notable exceptions but as a generalization it's not unreasonable. It would be dishonest to say otherwise. It doesn't mean I feel any sense of nationalistic superiority. I fundamentally despise nationalism of any sort and it was a real stretch for you to read any into what I said. I'm a lot of things and not all of them good but to cast me as an exceptionalist is ludicrous.

[nukes_da_bass]

Originally Posted by joelb79

There is something about your post that seems highly offensive. I would have sworn you were American but.. I guess Exceptionalism runs deep in Canada too. Thing is assuming that your country and people are better than another country or people is very gross these days.



They wouldn't. Expanding your Asian market does not mean canning your North American operations. I think MIM is here to stay.

MY country IS better than China. A country is based on government, policy, freedom, liberty, etc...
Chinas govt has been on Amnesty Internationals hit list for Human Rights Violations for well over a decade.
I have no beef with their citizens, but their one party govt leaves much to be desired!

[bmc]

Can we keep politics out of it? Maybe?

[Sgt. Rock]

Originally Posted by joelb79

Wagering on my stupidity? Righteous? All sorts of pleasant. Everybody take bets on the stupid! I must be stuck up self righteous according to you. Your retort is rather Ad-Hominem.

Regardless, to call them "poor slobs over there" is in error. I take offense to that. New American pastime? How about you stick your foot in your mouth there? I refuse to back down from voicing my opinion on this. There was no way to easily distinguish that the comment was made in good gesture for humor purposes only. I find it as an pejorative slur of an ethnic kind; and I would wager that is against talkbass rules.

/done with thread

They're still poor slobs and your use of ad hominem fails on multiple levels. You also don't seem to understand the "foot in mouth" colloquialism. It's probably for the best that you're done with the thread.

[RCCollins]

Shutting down the Ensenada production? Doubtful. I think it's MUCH more likely that Fender will scale back production in Corona! China will take over the entry-level products, MIM will become the standard (it already IS, actually), and MIA will become a big custom shop of sorts where only high-end instruments are made.