Fender Jazz: 60's position vs 70's position

[acubass]

Which spacing causes the Least amount of phasing issues? I find myself not able to play a jazz bass with both pickups on anymore.

And who here only uses the bridge pickup only? Not maybe would imagine.

[gruuv]

Excellent image, StoneSoup... thanks for that. And good thread topic - the mods should sticky this. Of note is that what tjh wrote is absolutely true. The BadAss II can make a 60's spacing look like 70's at first glance.

Personally, I hear a HUGE difference in slap tone between the two. The kicker is that different wood combos can affect it, as well. Generally though, I hear it as a bit more bite, aggressiveness, and definition with the 70's spacing, more aggressive upper mids. The 60's spacing is rounder, bigger down low, and a bit warmer up top.

Typical 60's wood formula = alder/rosewood

Typical 70's wood formula = ash/maple

The 70's wood combo is naturally much brighter/more aggressive sounding than the 60's which makes the difference more pronounced as well (see gimme's Graham vs. Marcus example). I won't even go into amplification...

Anyway, I tend to like a lot of warmth in the fingerstyle tone with a bit more bite when slapping. Solution? Combine the two eras and go early 70's recipe:

Alder body
Maple neck/board
Single coils in 70's location

Alder has nice warmth/lows, maple and 70's location gives it a nit more bite. Now I have an excuse to post a pic...

[gruuv]

Originally Posted by acubass

Which spacing causes the Least amount of phasing issues? I find myself not able to play a jazz bass with both pickups on anymore.

And who here only uses the bridge pickup only? Not maybe would imagine.

Excellent point... I run both pickups full on (I prefer a V-V setup to a pan knob) 99.999999999999% of the time. I'll sometimes favor the bridge pickup a hair, but I find that the 70's location sounds too thin/nasally to solo completely. Just my opinion...

Also, I've only ever run into phasing issues on one bass... a Fodera 5 with Duncan duals. Never had it happen with my J's.

[SJan3]

I too prefer the '60s pickup placement for its mellower tone but I also think that its easier to play OVER the 60s bridge pup. Anytime I ever played a '70s bass, I found too much tension over the bridge pup, so for me it eliminates an important hand position. If you like the occasional Jaco burp, you will find more comfort playing over a '60s pup. I also hear a little more body when the '60s bridge pup is soloed vs '70s.

[narud]

Originally Posted by gruuv

Excellent image, StoneSoup... thanks for that. And good thread topic - the mods should sticky this. Of note is that what tjh wrote is absolutely true. The BadAss II can make a 60's spacing look like 70's at first glance.

Personally, I hear a HUGE difference in slap tone between the two. The kicker is that different wood combos can affect it, as well. Generally though, I hear it as a bit more bite, aggressiveness, and definition with the 70's spacing, more aggressive upper mids. The 60's spacing is rounder, bigger down low, and a bit warmer up top.

Typical 60's wood formula = alder/rosewood

Typical 70's wood formula = ash/maple

The 70's wood combo is naturally much brighter/more aggressive sounding than the 60's which makes the difference more pronounced as well (see gimme's Graham vs. Marcus example). I won't even go into amplification...

Anyway, I tend to like a lot of warmth in the fingerstyle tone with a bit more bite when slapping. Solution? Combine the two eras and go early 70's recipe:

Alder body
Maple neck/board
Single coils in 70's location

Alder has nice warmth/lows, maple and 70's location gives it a nit more bite. Now I have an excuse to post a pic...

man you still have this bass!

[malthumb]

Funny. When I started this thread I thought I was the only one who didn't know. A lot of good information here.

[gruuv]

Originally Posted by narud

man you still have this bass!

Joe! Long time, man, hope all's well. Yes, the Valenti has just scratched the itch in a way that no other bass did. Different strokes, eh?

I jumped on your YT channel the other day... sounding phenomenal, as always.

[G]

I think what gruuv said about the wood combos is definitely true, although a 60's spaced ash/maple is a great sound as well.

[iiipopes]

Originally Posted by acubass

Which spacing causes the Least amount of phasing issues? I find myself not able to play a jazz bass with both pickups on anymore.

They both do. It's not just phasing, it's comb filtering and impedance drop.

My solution, which I have done to my custom fanned fret P-J: put a .01 inline capacitor to the bridge pickup, between the hot lead and the center lug of the bridge volume pot. This cuts a little bit of lows, which aren't there anyway at the bridge due to the lesser string excursion, and it takes away all of the phasing issues.

In the early '80's, when I had a real '75 light ash with rosewood 3-tone sunburst J (don't worry - a friend of mine has it. I can play it any time I desire), I usually ran the neck pickup full and the bridge pickup at 7 or 8. The setup with the inline capacitor has exactly the same effect. Yes, when you have the bridge pickup solo, it is slightly lesser volume, but it solves so many other problems it's worth it, especially as I don't solo or use the bridge pickup alone for much of anything, if at all.

[bucephylus]

IME, the 70's bridge pup position makes quite a large difference in things. The other factor, more than alder vs ash, is the weight of the body. The 70's positioning on a really light body, either ash or alder, does not get close to the MM scooped slap sound. For the MM sound, you really want a bass weighing in around 10 pounds or so to get that concrete basis to the slap. The lighter bodies, bass weight under 8.5 pounds or so, tend to sound more airy. However, a light body with the 70's position can give a sort of super Jaco sound, because the harmonics are more available. The 60's position can give a more balanced sound for playing in the pocket. All great flavors and a big reason a lot of players end up with a few instruments. If you want to compromise, I find a 9 pound bass with the 60's position to be best all round. But, the other configurations are fun and will suit different styles better.

As at least a few have posted, these are somewhat subtle differences that some won't really notice. For others, it is a pretty big deal.

IMO/E

[gruuv]

Originally Posted by bucephylus

IME, the 70's bridge pup position makes quite a large difference in things. The other factor, more than alder vs ash, is the weight of the body. The 70's positioning on a really light body, either ash or alder, does not get close to the MM scooped slap sound. For the MM sound, you really want a bass weighing in around 10 pounds or so to get that concrete basis to the slap. The lighter bodies, bass weight under 8.5 pounds or so, tend to sound more airy. However, a light body with the 70's position can give a sort of super Jaco sound, because the harmonics are more available. The 60's position can give a more balanced sound for playing in the pocket. All great flavors and a big reason a lot of players end up with a few instruments. If you want to compromise, I find a 9 pound bass with the 60's position to be best all round. But, the other configurations are fun and will suit different styles better.

As at least a few have posted, these are somewhat subtle differences that some won't really notice. For others, it is a pretty big deal.

IMO/E

The heavy ash matters for sure. It's difficult to express in words the quality it imparts. The best way I can describe it is that the discernible difference in weight of the ash translates to the notes as well. Each note weighs more... you can feel it. I agree about the 10lbs+ range, but will further qualify it by saying that the wood has to be resonant. I've played some heavy ash jazz basses that sounded awful, just dead because the wood is so dense. So the weight is key but isn't the only component.

[ShowLow]

Great thread guys, thanks a lot for the info. Stone Soup, that pic is worth a thousand posts!

Very fortunate to have two incredibly resonant ash-body J basses, one MIM with '60s and one MIJ with '70s spacing. They lean toward the hefty side for sure.

Someday, I hope my playing ability will catch up with my taste in instruments...yet in the meantime, they inspire me.

[bucephylus]

Originally Posted by gruuv

The heavy ash matters for sure. It's difficult to express in words the quality it imparts. The best way I can describe it is that the discernible difference in weight of the ash translates to the notes as well. Each note weighs more... you can feel it. I agree about the 10lbs+ range, but will further qualify it by saying that the wood has to be resonant. I've played some heavy ash jazz basses that sounded awful, just dead because the wood is so dense. So the weight is key but isn't the only component.

TOTALLY! Resonance in individual instruments, irrespective of character, is the WHOLE deal. Can't be emphasized enough. Can you say upright bass?