Originally Posted by cire113
so that bass is being sold for 16,000.. jesus thats alof money!
I wonder how much it costs for parts and labor to make it...?
Well I don't want to seem insensitive and I apologize to you in advance as this is NOT directed entirely at you but I have read quite a few questions like this in quite a few threads here on TB over the years and I feel compelled to jump in here....
First of all HELL YES!!!....It IS a lot of money but let me ask you a question....
How much of a profit margin IS fair for an instrument that requires the time and materials involved to build an instrument like this? 10%?? 20%?? 30%?? More?? What if YOU were the guy that owned the company? How much money would YOU expect to make for your time? The TIME that Vinnie and his staff and guys like Roger Sadowsky and his staff put into building the instruments they do is TIME they will NEVER get back!! You and I are paying for someone else's TIME in addition to their experience and YEARS of expertise...That should NOT come cheap in my opinion. Trust me you get what you pay for. One guy's Squire may be fine for him but I GUARANTEE you that if you gave the same guy a Fodera (or ANY other high quality instrument for that matter) and let him play it side by side with the Squire he would see, feel, and hear the differences pretty quickly. If he had the resources available he might just decide that the higher priced instrument was worth it to him....or NOT! That is the beauty of a free market system! Buy what you want and play what you want but ultimately that is your choice. Should Vinnie lower his price and devalue his time just because someone doesn't think his time is as valuable as he thinks it is? Certainly not!
When I was the Chief Engineer at a very large Production Company in the 90's my employer asked me what I had to have to work for him. I replied $2,000 a day plus ALL expenses and he didn't bat an eye because he saw the value in my expertise and hired me on the spot. He then billed me out at $4,000 a day and discounted it to our clients at $3,000 per day (to create value for them...??) PLUS all my expenses. HE made $1,000 a day off of MY TIME and did not build or create ANYTHING for it!!! What did I care? As long as he paid my rate he could make anything he wanted on top of it because I agreed to accept it....
My point is this... A person's TIME is only as valuable as they think it is and the consumer either agrees or they don't. Most hand crafted products like these are FAR more than just the sum of their parts! The staff at Fodera and many other builders are experts at what they do. I guarantee that if you need surgery you want THE BEST surgeon you can find to do it right? If you were charged with a crime whether you did it or not you want the BEST attorney you can get right? Same thing applies here.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!
At least MOST of the time...Sure there are many companies out there that are probably putting out crap but guys like Fodera and Sadowsky are building at the VERY TOP of the game....PERIOD! The cost of admission is steep to say the least but next time when considering the price of anything, consider the VALUE of what you are buying and the work it takes to make it not just the cost of the woods and electronics etc.
One must also factor into the equation the costs outside of the costs of the materials. I would be willing to bet that it takes a considerable amount of money to do business in New York. Throw in taxes, utilities, insurance, warehouse and workshop space, employees salaries, 401K contributions, Etc. etc. etc. and I doubt VERY seriously that a guy like Vinnie or Roger Sadowsky makes more than 8 to 12 percent NET on their cash flow. That means for every 1 MILLION dollars they take in they wind up with about $80,000 to $120,000 a year. That is ASSUMING that they have a MILLION $$ in Sales which is FAR more difficult than you think even at the prices they charge. Having worked in New York quite a bit myself I don't consider that to be that much money at all. The last time I was there I spent $700 in cab fair alone in 6 days!!!!
I have met Roger and most of his staff and I can tell you that he and everyone who works with him LOVES what they do and are very good at it. I have not had the pleasure of meeting the Fodera staff (but I hope to some day) but I have had numerous interactions with them and I can tell they genuinely enjoy what they do as well. I suspect there is not ONE person on either staff that does what they do for the money and I would also venture that they are at least as offended when someone assumes they are all making millions selling the instruments they do. I can only believe that they are making what they need to be comfortable and that is certainly not a crime. I tip my hat to ANYONE who can make a living doing what they love to do and making a business WORK and stay in business as long as these guys have. I would also be willing to bet there have been some TOUGH times for ALL of them and probably will be more tough times ahead before they clean up their work bench and close the door for the last time.
I for one hope that is a LONG way down the road and I wish them all the success and MONEY that they deserve for the art that they create! I personally have never questioned what someone charges for anything once I recognize the value in what they are doing and I choose VERY carefully who I buy from and for what reasons...For what it's worth I play Fodera, Sadowsky and Music Man Basses (another GREAT company and GREAT family owned business that I HIGHLY recommend at ANY price point) and probably always will after owning just about everything else out there. My Fodera gets about 100% of my playing time right now and I don't see that changing any time soon. I would love to have a lot of instruments from all of these guys if I could afford to but I really don't need to. The best tool for the job is always the best tool for the job and these guys have ALL been creating GREAT tools for a long time. I am happy to pay what they ask for the knowledge and skill it takes to create these tools, NOT simply the materials cost of the components they use....
On another note I played at a local open mic with some friends in Wilmington, NC this past Tuesday and had a couple of guys play my Fodera Yin Yang. It was the first Fodera they had ever had in their hands and both were skeptics due to the cost and PERCEIVED VALUE. BOTH of them said "I GET IT NOW" and they both want a Fodera now. It won't be easy for them but they are willing to start saving right now to get one. I also spoke to a local prodigy here the other day who has played my Fodera a few times and he told me that he had started a "Fodera Fund" to buy one. He said it would take him about 18 months to get the coin together but he was willing to make the sacrifice in order to make it happen. That is about the best endorsement I can give these guys.
just my $.02 and that and about $4 will get you a decent cup of coffee....By the way do you REALLY think it costs $4 for a cup of coffe? I wonder if the guys at Fodera drink coffee and if so how many cups at what cost? HHHHHmmmm maybe we should factor that into the cost structure as well....LOL!