Fodera Club Part XVII

[DirtPoorRobins]

I'm pretty sure they won't do a four way switch, they've spent a lot of time finding the two way and now a three way switch that works and sounds good.

[Baird6869]

Ok, here is a fairly stupid question, but your advice would be appreciated....

I have been predominantly a 35" scale 5er player for the last few years. I have small hands, but have always been told that the 35" B is better than a 34", so I played 35". The few 34" 5ers I have owned did not have great B strings (Fender P5 and Stingry 5s) which also pushed me towards 35".

In any case, I absolutely love my new Emperor 5 Standard and it is a 34". It is comfortable, and the B sounds great.

So my question is, if I am happy with Fodera's 34" scale 5er, really what would I be gaining with a 35"? Tighter B? Better resale?

Has anyone compared similar Fodera basses in both scales? I ask as I am leaning towards ordering a Monarch 5 in 34".

Thanks!

[narud]

Originally Posted by Baird6869

Ok, here is a fairly stupid question, but your advice would be appreciated....

I have been predominantly a 35" scale 5er player for the last few years. I have small hands, but have always been told that the 35" B is better than a 34", so I played 35". The few 34" 5ers I have owned did not have great B strings (Fender P5 and Stingry 5s) in any case.

In any case, I absolutely love my new Emperor 5 Standard and it is a 34". It is comfortable, and the B sounds great.

So my question is, if I am happy with Fodera's 34" scale 5er, really what would I be gaining with a 35"? Tighter B? Better resale?

Has anyone compared similar Fodera basses in both scales? I ask as I am leaning towards ordering a Monarch 5 in 34".

Thanks!

the b string on my 35" scale emperor 5 was average at best. not any better than the 34" emperor i had before that. what do you look for in a B string? some people look for tension, others tone only. i had a lull modern 5 with the tightest and yet worst sounding B string of any of the 5 strings ive had. i always prefer a floppier feeling B string with solid low mids in the B through D range rather than a tighter string thats thinner with more overtones.

[Baird6869]

Originally Posted by narud

what do you look for in a B string?

Tone mainly. A floppy B doesn't really bug me either.

Also, I rarely play below C# and I always use light strings (Fodera .040-.120 stainless on all of my basses).

[Mulebagger]

Originally Posted by Baird6869

Ok, here is a fairly stupid question, but your advice would be appreciated....

I have been predominantly a 35" scale 5er player for the last few years. I have small hands, but have always been told that the 35" B is better than a 34", so I played 35". The few 34" 5ers I have owned did not have great B strings (Fender P5 and Stingry 5s) which also pushed me towards 35".

In any case, I absolutely love my new Emperor 5 Standard and it is a 34". It is comfortable, and the B sounds great.

So my question is, if I am happy with Fodera's 34" scale 5er, really what would I be gaining with a 35"? Tighter B? Better resale?

Has anyone compared similar Fodera basses in both scales? I ask as I am leaning towards ordering a Monarch 5 in 34".

Thanks!

I had an interesting experience the other day at practice that relates...

My main 6 string for ten years was a Modulus Q6. I swore by that B string and still think it's an amazing feat of engineering.... Then comes last week's practice.

I had my E5S strung E-C for a month to do some high C woodshedding. About two weeks ago I changed it back to B-G. So at practice I was bummed because I couldn't play a few songs I wanted to work on with my drummer without the high C. He said I could play the bass from his bassist in another band. I opened the case... beautiful Q6 with new strings. Same setup that I used to play.

I played the Q6 for a few songs and quickly realized that I LOVE the sound of my Fodera over the Q6. I mean it's not even close. But, hey what about the B string? So I did some low end nastiness and remembered that huge solid B. I was smiling.

Put the Q6 away because I was not liking the tone so much. Busted out my E5S and couldn't believe how much better it sounded. The B was bigger sounding, perhaps a touch less articulate, but way more colored and pleasing to my ears.

I have thought a few times... would it be a mistake to get a 34 5 string ( E5S) because I played a Modulus Genesis 5 for years and that B was massive? Honestly, I like the B better on the Fodera. It's not just because it is my current bass. My drummer was impressed as well.

The 6 string Zon I'm waiting on is a 34" neck. I'm glad Joe suggested going with a 34 for comfort. Can't wait to compare it with my E5S.

This bass continuously impresses me. My Standard is sounding better and better all the time. If I get the scratch, I'm going to order a 6 string version.

I wouldn't worry about the scale. Play what feels right and sounds good to your ears. No doubt the 35" scale speaks very well in some instruments. But for a 6 string, I prefer the C at 34 so I'll stick w 34.

[Baird6869]

thanks Mulebagger!

Strangely enough, my Quantum 5 is currently strung E-C as I found the B not as good as my E5S.

I am selling the Modulus to partially fund my Fodera build in any case.

[nostatic]

fwiw I think that within a particular brand you'll find longer scale give more "piano-like" tone. Between brands and construction methods it'll vary. I've had 34" scale basses with very nice B-strings and 35" scale basses with so-so B-strings. Mostly I want articulate especially up the neck. That can be harder to achieve as many B-string get wooly up around the 7th and above frets. It also depends on technique though.

[basses55]

For me there is more than one factor ( scale length) that can determine what a "better" B is...for instance- make, type, and gauge of the B string itself. Its been for me that these 3 things alone radically alters what my experience with a B string will be on any given bass . Its a marriage of scale length, build quality, pup placement, personal touch, and string IMO. I do a lot of experimenting between brands to find the right one for each bass. Maybe not so surprising, Fodera strings have worked the best on my Foderas and even some other brands.
I've played 35 Bs that were bad , but when I change the string to a different make and gauge its all different. Same with 34s. This is what I've found generally: if a maker builds a stable and solid neck with excellent fretwork then I've found there has been no problem with a 34 scale B string ( and I prefer light 120s so there is more chance of buzzing). I think one reason 34 B strings were problematic way back through the early rise of 5 string basses was partly because ( for Fender and other brands) necks and fretwork were not up to it. Things have got better overall over the last 10 years or so IMO. Some boutique builders still prefer 35 and they have great fretwork- maybe they prefer the tone of a bigger scale length in general and have the extra tension there just incase.
Here are the advantages of a 34 B for ME and why I go through a bit to find the right string /gauge to make it work:
-34 is more comfy to me in terms of spacing.
-I dont like the extra tension that a 35 scale bass brings to the E, A, D, G ..and usually dont want to go to a lighter gauge to compensate.

Some caveats:

-Set - up on a 34 B is even more important as the tolerances are lower if you like low action because of the overall lower tension..so make sure the relief is properly adjusted in conjunction with the saddle, and even double check the groove depth in the nut for the string as I've seen too many times that it was too deep or too shallow ...and this can throw off the entire feel of the string and leave you constantly trying to compensate in different ways. Luthiers are not always perfect so dont assume they are

-Again, for the same string, there's lower tension on a 34 compared to a 35 so if you like lower action your technique may come into play. I like low action and I've had people play my basses and the B was buzzing quite a bit- when I play the same bass its pretty much gone. So your personal touch is all important. I've always thought that no matter what a bass is like when I try it, unless its set up with my entire preferences I dont really know exactly how good or bad it is for me.

Advantage of 35": Unless you have small hands like me the only thing I've noticed with a 35" is that the B and E can potentially sound a bit deeper/bigger /more resonant overall. But I dont miss it at all with 34....nothing is " missing".

I've played the ESS5 a number of times and they have done a great job IMO with their 34 B, as with their Customs. Bottom line is unless you are missing something tonally on its own without doing a back to back comparison in real time ,then there's really no reason I would have to go to a 35".

Originally Posted by Baird6869

Ok, here is a fairly stupid question, but your advice would be appreciated....

I have been predominantly a 35" scale 5er player for the last few years. I have small hands, but have always been told that the 35" B is better than a 34", so I played 35". The few 34" 5ers I have owned did not have great B strings (Fender P5 and Stingry 5s) which also pushed me towards 35".

In any case, I absolutely love my new Emperor 5 Standard and it is a 34". It is comfortable, and the B sounds great.

So my question is, if I am happy with Fodera's 34" scale 5er, really what would I be gaining with a 35"? Tighter B? Better resale?

Has anyone compared similar Fodera basses in both scales? I ask as I am leaning towards ordering a Monarch 5 in 34".

Thanks!

[Lennard III.]

also you could go with the Extended B Headstock on your 34" like I did (ok, I'm also loving the shape of the headstock so I needed to have it either way )

The B on my Bass (130' Fodera string) just feels and sound great.

[narud]

Originally Posted by Baird6869

Tone mainly. A floppy B doesn't really bug me either.

Also, I rarely play below C# and I always use light strings (Fodera .040-.120 stainless on all of my basses).

so if youre rarely using the low notes, is the B string more of position shifting thing? most all 5 strings have questionable sounding notes past F# or so imo. although, a lot of the overtones and weirdness can be alleviated by pickup height and making sure theres not too much magnetic pull. sometimes, its not the constructions fault, but the electronics choice.

[Blue Blood]

There really is no way to plan for a good B string. It really depends on the individual instrument as to whether the B is good. You can play 20 FOdera's with the same specs and some of the B's will be good, some will be bad. I've played several Fodera's with average to below average B's, a couple were 35" and some were 34". Just get the scale length that feels best and then make the B work. I've made plenty of bad B strings sound much better with set-up and technique.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Blue Blood

There really is no way to plan for a good B string. It really depends on the individual instrument as to whether the B is good. You can play 20 FOdera's with the same specs and some of the B's will be good, some will be bad. I've played several Fodera's with average to below average B's, a couple were 35" and some were 34". Just get the scale length that feels best and then make the B work. I've made plenty of bad B strings sound much better with set-up and technique.

It depends almost entirely on the string. The string is dumb. All it knows is that it sits on a nut at one end and a saddle at the other. How it's going to vibrate is dependent on the distance between the two, its tension, and its own stiffness and density. You don't like a floppy B? Get stiffer strings. For a given scale length, the tension of the same brand and model B string on any two different basses will be identical when both are tuned to B.

I've never played a bass that had a floppy B that wasn't attributable to the string itself. For instance, I'm sure many people would characterize the B strings on two of my basses as "floppy." That's because I have TI PowerBass strings on them. They're a bit slinky. I love them. It takes a lighter touch to play them, but that falls under technique, as you pointed out. If I put stiffer strings on those basses, the B would no longer be floppy.

[Baird6869]

Thanks for all of the advice, folks. I think a 34" is for me.

I think I have nailed down the final spec of my Monarch build. As a long time Fender Jazz player (and owner of a E5S with dual coils), I have decided on single coils. Also, I love my E5S, so I wanted to make the Monarch quite different tonally.

Any thoughts or ideas on the below? Am I out to lunch? Missing anything? Fairly standard, but I think it will work out very well.

Thanks, all!

Fodera Monarch 5 Deluxe
- Block inlays (abalone)
- Single coil pickups
- Walnut body
- Curly walnut top
- Ebony fretboard
- 34" scale
- 19mm string spacing
- Black hardware
- neck shape - standard

[emjazz]

Originally Posted by Lennard III.

yes - I did this on my Viceroy - I only have added the Holly top and the MOP Blocks.... but if I still would be into figured wood tops I would have been fine with the Curly Walnut top...

I realized pretty quickly that there's all inside the "basic package" what I need in a Bass and I even have reduced it on the other side like going without the preamp or only having 22 frets...

And the result is the most amazing Bass that I have ever owned - no kidding

Love this. Simple and elegant. Very much what I prefer. Very nice.

[fivestringdan]

Yes, very much so. The open B string should really sound that much different between 33-36 scale. As you go up the neck I have found that shorter scale instruments are not useable. I must say that the B string on my Fodera is useable past F# above the 12th fret. Around the second octave you can hear the fundamental of the string start to deteriorate. My 35 scale instruments vary and my 33 is usable about to G. My Fodera is incredible.

Originally Posted by narud

so if youre rarely using the low notes, is the B string more of position shifting thing? most all 5 strings have questionable sounding notes past F# or so imo. although, a lot of the overtones and weirdness can be alleviated by pickup height and making sure theres not too much magnetic pull. sometimes, its not the constructions fault, but the electronics choice.

[Rich Treat]

If you like Fodera's 34" scale, then I say go for that with your monarch.

You brought up resale: 34" is commonly requested with fodera, so I don't think it will hurt your resale value at all.

Originally Posted by Baird6869

Ok, here is a fairly stupid question, but your advice would be appreciated....

I have been predominantly a 35" scale 5er player for the last few years. I have small hands, but have always been told that the 35" B is better than a 34", so I played 35". The few 34" 5ers I have owned did not have great B strings (Fender P5 and Stingry 5s) which also pushed me towards 35".

In any case, I absolutely love my new Emperor 5 Standard and it is a 34". It is comfortable, and the B sounds great.

So my question is, if I am happy with Fodera's 34" scale 5er, really what would I be gaining with a 35"? Tighter B? Better resale?

Has anyone compared similar Fodera basses in both scales? I ask as I am leaning towards ordering a Monarch 5 in 34".

Thanks!

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Baird6869

Fodera Monarch 5 Deluxe
- Block inlays (abalone)
- Single coil pickups
- Walnut body
- Curly walnut top
- Ebony fretboard
- 34" scale
- 19mm string spacing
- Black hardware
- neck shape - standard

That will sound different than the E5S. I'm not a single coil guy but otherwise you've got my favorite spec. Only other thing you might want to ponder is chambering the body.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Baird6869

Thanks for all of the advice, folks. I think a 34" is for me.

I think I have nailed down the final spec of my Monarch build. As a long time Fender Jazz player (and owner of a E5S with dual coils), I have decided on single coils. Also, I love my E5S, so I wanted to make the Monarch quite different tonally.

Any thoughts or ideas on the below? Am I out to lunch? Missing anything? Fairly standard, but I think it will work out very well.

Thanks, all!

Fodera Monarch 5 Deluxe
- Block inlays (abalone)
- Single coil pickups
- Walnut body
- Curly walnut top
- Ebony fretboard
- 34" scale
- 19mm string spacing
- Black hardware
- neck shape - standard

I'm going to be a while off on my Monarch Deluxe build (should get my ES5 this summer), and I have yet to decide between 4 or 5-strings (leaning towards 4 strings and a D-tuner), but I'm thinking mahogany body, ebony board, single coils, black hardware, and with regard to the preamp, I'm leaning towards a Flex Core with both midrange controls (low-mid and high-mid).

[steubig]

Originally Posted by steubig

dunno, about that. i have something like that in some of my basses. hum is NOT noticeably worse than regular single coil noise. i use 3-way rotary switches. no preamp, though.

hah. my typing sucks, especially when i'm on an ipad. is NOT noticeably worse . . . sheesh.

[Munjibunga]

My Emperor is 35-inch scale and my Viceroy is 34-inch. There's no noticeable difference in the playability of the B strings on them.