Fodera vs. Fender (intrigued? he he)

[denchiq]

I just saw a pic of a Fodera Monarch beautiful so much that she inclined me to comment right away, but I realized it was irrelevant for the thread so I corrected myself and am starting a new post.

Several days ago I listened to a 4+ hour live show of a very popular Russian band. The sound was so-so, not bad not very good but you could hear every note, if you know what I mean. The bassist used a 4 string coffeetable-topped Fodera Monarch p/j with a nice for rock, soft rock and some ska. This wasn't a VW version as much as I could tell (not an expert tho). The two bands that opened had a MM SR5 (rock) and a Fender AmDLX JB5 (blues).

I couldn't say anything about the Sting Ray soundwise, it just did nothing to me.
The Fodera... is it legal to apply the word "suck" to a Fodera? The sound was quite cheap, no nice cushioning lows, no gentle roar, no thump, no cozy envelope. It only cut through in the higher notes and high mids. I can imagine this kind of sound used by a soloing bassist, but it clearly wasn't right for a band sound and in that situation.
The one who owned the day was the Fender. Again, the sound at the show was not very good, so the bass wasn't "very good", nor it was "the" JB sound, sounded just like a generic bass, but it had the lows, the thump, was the assertive one. It was THE BASS of the band if you know what I mean.

Now, that reminded me of the live recording of mr. Victor Wooten, "Live in America" IIRC. He also plays a 4-string p/j Monarch and we all know what it sounds like. What struck me on that recording, Victor was obviously hosting the night, using his own gear, his sound engineer, his settings, and everything, to say nothing of his, what? a $8,000+ bass? But then enter stage mr. Marcus Miller as guest, and his Fender does the work hands down.

I respect Fodera very much (although I do question the pricing) and am not a fan of Fenders, but that's the two observations that I've personally made. What do you think?

[DTF]

Originally Posted by denchiq

I respect Fodera very much (although I do question the pricing) and am not a fan of Fenders, but that's the two observations that I've personally made. What do you think?

I think this thread will be 10 pages long in an hour

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by DTF

I think this thread will be 10 pages long in an hour

I predict that this thread will still be at page one in an hour and in a week will might be on page three.

[klaus486]

I think Fender basses are like Martin guitars. 98%(made that up oc) of all recordings featuring electric bass have been done with a Fender, just like the most recorded acoustic guitar has been the Martin. Any time someone deviates from that sound it "ain't right" as they say! Listen to Anthony Jackson on Steve Khan's Public Access album to hear what a Fodera is capable of. Or anything with Richard Bona. Both masters of the Fodera.

[testing1two]

IBTL!

[Peepaleep]

I think that if you've spent $8k on a bass you're either in a very fortunate financial position or in desperate need of psychological counseling.

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by testing1two

IBTL!

It won't be locked. But I can't see this thread going anywhere good... if it goes at all, lol.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by denchiq

What do you think?

I think you have no basis on which to assess the sound of the Fodera. You don't even mention the amp or cabs he was playing through, and you don't know how the player had the bass or his amp EQ'd.

I have a Fodera Emperor 5 that I can guarantee will sound like absolute crap through some amps and cabs. It sounds superb through any of my amps but none of them suck, and I know how to EQ them. Plug the Fodera you saw into my Aguilar rig, and it will blow your socks off.

Caution: If the Fodera was a "Fodera" made in China, all bets are off.

[brett7276]

I'd have to agree with you- I have a monarch PJ and after being a die hard Spector/Fender guy I wondered if they were worth all the fuss...in a word yes... best sounding playing bass I have touched ...period. it goes with me to my grave...and I'm getting close to being over GAS

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by denchiq

I respect Fodera very much (although I do question the pricing) and am not a fan of Fenders, but that's the two observations that I've personally made. What do you think?

I figure I might as well add something relevant to the thread. My thoughts in bullet point form:

1) People are different.

[calebbarton]

Amp is the key here, If they were all using different amps....well there ya go.

[loinmute]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I think you have no basis on which to assess the sound of the Fodera. You don't even mention the amp or cabs he was playing through, and you don't know how the player had the bass or his amp EQ'd.

I have a Fodera Emperor 5 that I can guarantee will sound like absolute crap through some amps and cabs. It sounds superb through any of my amps but none of them suck, and I know how to EQ them. Plug the Fodera you saw into my Aguilar rig, and it will blow your socks off.

Caution: If the Fodera was a "Fodera" made in China, all bets are off.

This

[SoonerMatt]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Caution: If the Fodera was a "Fodera" made in China, all bets are off.

Beat me to it. I'm 99% sure the "Fodera" you heard was a cheap copy, especially since you didn't provide a link to the person playing it. In any case, any bass would sound like **** played through a bad amp, but again since you didn't provide a link I'm left to assume that you heard a Fodera knock-off through a cheap-o Billy-Bob's Backwater Sound Loudening (TM) amp.

[pringlw]

Well I am flattered because I may be the person with the beautiful Monarch you are talking about. I posted a picture of my new Yin Yang last night and saw you start a similar post in the same thread shortly afterward.

I obviously have a Fodera, but I also have a Fender Jazz. I love them both. I personally prefer the sound of my P J Fodera but there are times when you just need that Jazz tone.
For example, you like Marcus Miller's sound. I agree, he sounds awesome. Fender Jazz (and amazing talent) all the way.

If you heard a Fodera that sounded sucky it could have been a fake Fodera. It could have been sucky amps. It could have been a sucky player. Or maybe you just really like the Fender Jazz sound and that's ok too.

I will tell you though, there's no such thing as a "dud" Fodera. These basses are all hand made by the best luthiers in the world using the best tone wood in the world. They are - each of them - incredible creations. Here's mine!

[allexcosta]

Fodera basses do not sound like Fenders, period...

YouTube - WOW! Stanley Clarke, Marcus Miller and Victor Wooten

Fodera uses pickups with less inductance which makes notes more even but don't have the same punch as an Alnico 5/high inductance Fender pickup. It's Fodera's choice and seems to be working quite well for them.

IME Fodera basses work great when you need refined sound and unmatched playability, but don't do too well in a large ensemble with percussion, horns, etc...

A jazz style bass would suit a busy band better IMO, but the playability won't be any closer to what a Fodera can offer... Both brands make good instruments. You chose what you like...

[Just Thumpin']

Based on my personal experiences, I do not agree with either of these statements...

1. Only the basses that we make with EMG's (which represent less than 20% of what we build) have the characteristic that you are describing in terms of pickup inductance. The rest of the pickups that we use are very, very much based on Leo Fender's pickups -- using the same materials and designs and with the same kind of inductance readings.

2. Foderas cut through exceedingly well in large ensemble situations...I could post literally hundreds of clips, but just give a listen to either of these (Anthony Jackson with Michel Camilo)...no problem hearing Anthony's Foderas...

YouTube - Anthony Jackson playing "Not Yet" by Michel Camilo

YouTube - Anthony Jackson bass 1990 (clip 1)

There are also some great clips on YouTube of Richard Bona playing in large ensembles WITH EMG pickups...and he cuts through really well too.

Kindest regards,

J

Originally Posted by allexcosta

Fodera uses pickups with less inductance which makes notes more even but don't have the same punch as an Alnico 5/high inductance Fender pickup. It's Fodera's choice and seems to be working quite well for them.

IME Fodera basses work great when you need refined sound and unmatched playability, but don't do too well in a large ensemble with percussion, horns, etc...

[allexcosta]

Originally Posted by Just Thumpin'

Based on my personal experiences, I do not agree with either of these statements...

1. Only the basses that we make with EMG's (which represent less than 20% of what we build) have the characteristic that you are describing in terms of pickup inductance. The rest of the pickups that we use are very, very much based on Leo Fender's pickups -- using the same materials and designs and with the same kind of inductance readings.

2. Foderas cut through exceedingly well in large ensemble situations...I could post literally hundreds of clips, but just give a listen to either of these (Anthony Jackson with Michel Camilo)...no problem hearing Anthony's Foderas...

YouTube - Anthony Jackson playing "Not Yet" by Michel Camilo

YouTube - Anthony Jackson bass 1990 (clip 1)

There are also some great clips on YouTube of Richard Bona playing in large ensembles WITH EMG pickups...and he cuts through really well too.

Kindest regards,

J

Of course I was making a broad and general statement, since your basses differ a lot from each other...

EMG pickups sound somewhat thin and weak to my ears. That's compensated by your strong preamp. The result is nothing like a traditional sound.

Also, speaking of your custom designed Aeros and Duncan's, what kind of Alnico are those built with? I'm pretty sure it's Alnico 3 and/or 2.

The sound will be more even across the spectrum and colder in output. Fodera evens this out with a strong preamp, very much different from more traditional designs. Please correct me if I'm wrong...

[LAG]

The current bass player on the American Idol show plays a Fodera and his tone cuts through just right, IMO.

[dmot002]

different players, different amplifiers, different sound engineer ? How can a plausible comparison be made ?

[cnltb]

Originally Posted by denchiq

I just saw a pic of a Fodera Monarch beautiful so much that she inclined me to comment right away, but I realized it was irrelevant for the thread so I corrected myself and am starting a new post.

Several days ago I listened to a 4+ hour live show of a very popular Russian band. The sound was so-so, not bad not very good but you could hear every note, if you know what I mean. The bassist used a 4 string coffeetable-topped Fodera Monarch p/j with a nice for rock, soft rock and some ska. This wasn't a VW version as much as I could tell (not an expert tho). The two bands that opened had a MM SR5 (rock) and a Fender AmDLX JB5 (blues).

I couldn't say anything about the Sting Ray soundwise, it just did nothing to me.
The Fodera... is it legal to apply the word "suck" to a Fodera? The sound was quite cheap, no nice cushioning lows, no gentle roar, no thump, no cozy envelope. It only cut through in the higher notes and high mids. I can imagine this kind of sound used by a soloing bassist, but it clearly wasn't right for a band sound and in that situation.
The one who owned the day was the Fender. Again, the sound at the show was not very good, so the bass wasn't "very good", nor it was "the" JB sound, sounded just like a generic bass, but it had the lows, the thump, was the assertive one. It was THE BASS of the band if you know what I mean.

Now, that reminded me of the live recording of mr. Victor Wooten, "Live in America" IIRC. He also plays a 4-string p/j Monarch and we all know what it sounds like. What struck me on that recording, Victor was obviously hosting the night, using his own gear, his sound engineer, his settings, and everything, to say nothing of his, what? a $8,000+ bass? But then enter stage mr. Marcus Miller as guest, and his Fender does the work hands down.

I respect Fodera very much (although I do question the pricing) and am not a fan of Fenders, but that's the two observations that I've personally made. What do you think?

That's two observations you've made.
Fair enough.
Most manufacturers make very good basses and some instruments that are possibly not so good.
Maybe the one you heard was one from the latter group.
I have played real good basses and not so good ones made by alembic, fodera, fender, spectors, seibass,overwater, marleaux, lefay and so on, and would for that reason not go as far as to generalize about any given makers instruments, especially since lot of it has to do with taste.
But...
The amps, the room the preferences of any given bassist who may have dialed in a tone you simply don't like may all be part of why any bass may not sound to your liking.
Or you are simply not into the "Fodera tone"
Who knows.

I know ... nothing new in this post...sorry!