The future of Fretted Instruments?

[Darren Low]

Wouldn't changing string gauge mess things up?

[Stealth]

Originally Posted by Nasty Nate

can't slap a fretless

Michael Manring would disagree.

And I disagree with the above fret compensation because of all the variables, including the finger pressure being an important one.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by Nasty Nate

can't slap a fretless

You're kidding, right?

[Gaius46]

Originally Posted by Nasty Nate

can't slap a fretless

Guess I did the impossible last Thursday night.

[hrodbert696]

Cost/benefit analysis ---> not worth it.

[bassdude51]

Got a website warning from our virus protector when I clicked!!!!!!!!!!!!

[john_martin_sai]

Cost for a Re-Fret - $849

[coreybox]

Bass has an advantage over other fretted instruments in that it has a longer scale length. Being slightly off in distance results in much less pitch difference than on a guitar or mandolin.

I think the imperfections are small enough that most people can't hear them. Average adults can only hear differences >5 cents, musicians probably slightly better.

Also, if you have any vibrato, you're changing the pitch significantly more than that!

[Ezmar]

I don't see this EVER catching on for bass. Guitar makes sense because of the major 3rd between B and G. Tuning my guitar was always a PITA because of that. You tune the 3rd right, and the octaves aren't in tune, you get all the strings in tune with each other and the 3rds don't work. I'd like to try a guitar with these, maybe I'd find it a lot easier to play. I have a really good ear, so things like that bother me a lot.

Looking at those fretboards, the most drastic change is up by the B and G. It's a lot flatter on the low EADG strings. They'd probably still charge the same amount for those frets on a bass neck, even though it would be easier to work. Fretless is by far the better option for bass. Tye only intonation that needs to be done there is making sure the strings are all intonated the same way. I'm realizing I need a fretless at some point, because with my current fretted, the harmonics don't quite match. There's a reason all those harmonic-heavy players used fretless.

[Clef_de_fa]

This is old ...

Our system is made that way because otherwise we would need a different bass/piano/whatever instrument for each key ...

wanna play in Fmajor ? you need one ... then you want to play in Db : need another one ... and if you think you are ok to play in C# na-han !!! you need a new one for that too.

So it is a compromise to play every keys. Also the calculation for the equal temperament came from Pythagore who was the first to discovers that no matter how long your strings are, a perfect fifth is at 2/3 of the strings and the octave is at 1/2 ... so every other frets are fraction. Music is mathematic !!!


The only bass artist that I know who wanted to try the real thing is Hansford Rowe, he play a custom Warwick.

[Ric5]

I would never own an instrument with those crazy crooked frets.

[khutch]

Originally Posted by lokikallas

I cant believe I am the first to say this.

This is a good reason to go fretless.

You were the second, but you are right: on a fretless instrument you can do this right for every key and at no cost. Ask any violinist!

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Virtually none of the music recorded to date has been performed on instruments fretted in that way, and the difference in sound is trivial to an untrained ear.

In terms of fretted instruments, correct. There are tons of recordings of symphony orchestras, string ensembles, and vocal ensembles that perform using just intonation though so there are recordings of the art and untrained ears can hear the difference even if they cannot identify what it is that sounds better about that group. The obvious success of the even larger body of pop music recordings illustrates that the human ear is very tolerant of the even tempered scale and also of the further errors that common fretted instruments introduce however.

So I think that this notion will be a niche success, at best, among the relative few guitar musicians for whom artistic purity is a paramount goal. It is a real advantage and ordinary ears can hear it, otherwise microtonal music would not exist. To really use it you would need several guitars fretted to cover all 12 of the possible keys and at the current pricing most of us will balk at that.

Besides, we are bass players so if we want to play with a string ensemble we just do exactly what they do: learn to play a fretless instrument correctly!

Ken

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Nasty Nate

http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php

I just found this. and yes, they make bass necks.

Here's a brief summary of the reasoning (full explantion in the FAQs page)
All our basses are out of tune, because the fret position is calculated based solely on division of the open string, while string tension and height also play a part in real life.

I'd have to play one of these for myself.... will we all be playing instruments like this in 50 years?

Listening to the vids, the silly things are still out of tune..... Better than a regular guitar, but still awful with certain chords....

I don't see it catching on for manufacturing and cost reasons, but if it ever were to, guitars equipped with these would be a little more pleasant to play along with until he hits the nasty chord.....

I went to fretless secondarily for intonation reasons. My fretted basses were always out of tune somewhere on the neck and I was stuck with it. My Ricks for some reason always had the best intonation, only going really flat on the 2 and 3rd frets on the G string.

All that ugliness goes away with the FL, which gives you the control over intonation needed for whatever you want to do with it.

BTW, slapping an FL works fine, with a nice woody pop even with dead strings. Doesn't have the aggressive clank of a fretted tho...

LS

[Ezmar]

I just want to point out that the people saying it only works for one key didn't read the FAQ. It's not designed to be a Just intonation system, it's designed to more accurately represent the Equal temperament that straight frets cause problems with. They go over the physical and mechanical reasons that straight, logarithmically spaced frets don't accurately divide the board into equal temperament semitones. This is a system designed to better do the job that straight frets don't fully accomplish.

Makes sense if you think about it. Frets are spaced to divide the fretboard into certain proportions, with the 12th fret being at the 1/2 mark. So why does each string need to be intonated to a slightly different length, but the "halfway" point is represented by a straight bar a fixed length from one end? The length between the 12th fret and the nut is the same, but once intonation is adjusted for, there's quite a bit of difference from the 12th fret to each bridge saddle. Hence, the string is not divided perfectly in half at fret 12, and even though the fretted note and the harmonic may match up at 12, a variety of factors acting on fretted strings mean that those two matching and the string actually being divided in half areyou mutually exclusive. If the 12th fret is EXACTLY halfway, then the harmonic will be EXACTLY over the 12th fret, but the fretted note will sound sharp. If the string length is adjusted so that the fretted note matches the 1st harmonic, then none of the mathematically spaced frets will be in the right spot, since their spacing assumes that the 12th fret is EXACTLY half the string length.

The site also explained to me why tuning to harmonics doesn't work perfectly for fretted instruments, particularly guitars, with the 3rd between B and G.

[Grateful]

Originally Posted by lokikallas

This is a good reason to go fretless.

+1

Originally Posted by Nasty Nate

can't slap a fretless

Definitely another reason to go fretless!

re: the topic: $695 for a neck? Pass....

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by lowphatbass

The finest piano is not completely in tune with itself. I think our mind's ability/necessity to "pull things into tune" can stimulate the brain and in some cases cause us to be more receptive. Music doesn't have to be perfectly in tune to sound perfect.

Agree^ Any stringed instrument can go in and out of tune during performance no matter how well it is setup etc.

Set it and let it is my saying...it's all good.

[NecroticImbecil]

can't slap a fretless

This is a good reason to go fretless.

[Nasty Nate]

well i stand corrected. you can slap a fretless. but it sure doesn't sound the same

[Ezmar]

Originally Posted by Nasty Nate

well i stand corrected. you can slap a fretless. but it sure doesn't sound the same

In many cases is sounds better. Case-in-point: Bakithi Kumalo or Les Claypool. You get a thunkier sound that has all the snap, but less of the clang.

I need to get me a fretless.

[lomo]

An unnecessary solution to a paper problem (however "real")that goes away with your eyes closed and your ears open ,IMHO