Is this the golden age of bass selection and mass availability?

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Ronbeast

I can understand what you guys are saying about us young folks not really having the option of being able to make a sold living playing the music we love. I'm only 20 years old and I've got people who are 3 times my age asking me to play in bands with them, but in the end, that's not going to pay the bills.

I decided against music school, and instead chose to do an engineering degree. It sucks to put music on the backburner, but a steady paycheck will be better than $100 a gig with my weekend warrior buddies... I guess that's just the way life is.

-Ron

Well as for me, I'm definitely _not_ saying not to try or have a go at it. For sure, if it's something your really want to do definitely have at it.

All I'm saying is not to be starry-eyed about the past and start thinking there was a Good Ol' Days where it was any easier than it is now. There never was such a thing, it was a myth that never existed.

It's still statistically about like winning the lottery, just like it always has been ever since Leo Fender released the P bass back in the 50's. And I don't see this improving in the future.

Just go into it with open eyes is all I'd say. Do it for the fun of it first, since that's likely to be all you'll get out of it lol. But certainly still give it a try.....

LS

[Ronbeast]

Well, I'd give the whole music scene a try, but in my town all of the music has gotten pretty stagnant. All anybody wants to hear is songs that were beat to death before I was even born...

Perhaps I'll give it a go when I complete my degree. I always have something to fall back on then.

Edit: As far as staying on topic, I don't know if we are currently in the golden age or if there is more to come. I bought a squier bronco last week for $175 CAD with a nice gigbag included. That's a hell of a lot of bass for the price.

I'm interested in seeing what other diamonds emerge in the forthcoming years.

[shoot-r]

Originally Posted by Troph

I am constantly amazed at the wide selection and good overall quality of instruments available today, most at reasonable prices.

International imports of amazing quality seem to have flooded the market, so that intermediate level basses are available at entry-level prices. When you adjust for inflation, that $300 entry-level instrument with active pickups, active pre, string-thru body, and 24-fret super-duper-neck, equates to just $39 in 1960. Imagine that!

In 1960, a brand new Fender Precision retailed for $279.50. After adjusting for inflation, that's roughly $2200 today. Think about what you can do with that kind of budget today!

And yet, even if you don't like the new imports, today you can still purchase a US-made classic design from old-pedigree entities like Fender, Gibson, Music Man, G&L, or Rickenbacker. The competition the old guard have faced from imports (e.g. early Ibanez) have forced them to improve their value proposition from their low points in the late 1970s and early 1980s, when they nearly went bankrupt. Now at least they're solvent and producing great-quality instruments once more, and in some cases, they're better than ever.

And then think of all of the modern small-output luthiers like Spector, MTD, or even smaller shops like Mike Lull, and the work they're able to do with modern manufacturing techniques, amazing electronics selection, and new tools like the PLEK machine for computer-assisted fret work. The Internet has opened up new markets for them, allowing them to sell to international markets where before their work would have remained largely regional.

Of course I can't predict whether this explosion in selection is a sustainable market trend and will continue to grow. I know that the "Great Recession" has already taken a toll on several companies who have scaled back. But I'm fairly sure that 2002-2012 has been an unprecedented decade for instrument consumers.

It's truly a great time to be a bass player... as long as you have a paying gig to fund the GAS.

+1.....

But I do think there's several manufacturers that have (to me anyway) reached their "tipping point" of price to value.

[Kryptos]

Originally Posted by KJung

Another good example of what I talked about in my post above is the virtual disappearance and collapse of piano manufacturers over the last 30 years. I just watched a wonderful documentary on the making of a single Steinway concert grand over a one year period. There was a discussion of the number of companies making pianos today versus 30 years ago. I can't remember exactly, but it was on the magnitude of several thousands to single digits.

The documentary is:

Note by Note: The Making of Steinway L1037

Available via Netflix stream, more information at:

Note by Note

[skychief]

Originally Posted by Dredmahawkus

The real question is how many can they produce today compared to 1960....and how much per unit does it cost them. trust me they make more money now charging what they do.

The smaller-producing luthiers charge thousands for their creations. they need to because each instrument is made by hand, sometimes to the customer's specs, similar to the way Fender used to do in the pre-CBS era.

Now Fender has a robotic mill in the plant where you simply toss in a blank slab of wood and the mill spits out a perfectly formed guitar or bass body ready for finish sanding /paint/buff.

So all the body shaping/routing work previously done by humans is now automated. Cuts down on the production cost greatly and they (Fender) can sell their guitars & basses for $350 and still be profitable.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Kryptos

The documentary is:

Note by Note: The Making of Steinway L1037

Available via Netflix stream, more information at:

Note by Note

Thanks. Yes, watched it on my Netflix streaming. a MUST WATCH for anyone who is interested in old world skill and quality of manufacturing. Watching that guy hand slotting the 'nut' of a concert grand with a hammer and chisel (or whatever that tool is called in woodworking) is almost a religious experience.

[smcd]

Originally Posted by skychief

The smaller-producing luthiers charge thousands for their creations. they need to because each instrument is made by hand, sometimes to the customer's specs, similar to the way Fender used to do in the pre-CBS era.

Now Fender has a robotic mill in the plant where you simply toss in a blank slab of wood and the mill spits out a perfectly formed guitar or bass body ready for finish sanding /paint/buff.

So all the body shaping/routing work previously done by humans is now automated. Cuts down on the production cost greatly and they (Fender) can sell their guitars & basses for $350 and still be profitable.

A lot of the smaller companies farm out their body production (Lakland and Sadowsky come to mind), so CNC machines make those bodies, too.

But that's not why Fender can make a profit on $350 guitars. The reason they can make a profit at that price point is that they pay their Chinese laborers 89¢/hour, with no benefits and no government regulation.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by KJung

So, yes, it is truly the golden age of 'bass/guitar/drums', but IMO the 'business cycle' mentioned above doesn't really account for it. Just like the horse and buggy, the trombone, etc., it will most likely not come back.

I know a cat here in NYC who's a professional trombonist. He's never been busier!

MM

[Tupac]

Yes.

[BawanaRik]

IE Hamer

Originally Posted by BrandenSteele

I would agree this is the golden age! So many amazing basses at such good prices.

We are at a peak right now on the line graph. What will most likely happen is Fender, Ibanez, Warwick or other big companies will buy out smaller ones. Here's why:

There is one thing that I find disturbing though. For Capitalism to function it must keep expanding profit income. No expansion = a dying business since another will expand and take over. At the rate the bass manufacturing are progressing it will be producing more basses than there are bass players soon or certain companies will not expand profits rapidly enough resulting in collapses or more likely buyouts of smaller companies.

It's like, there's only enough food for 10 animals in the area. Lets say there are 100 animals in this area. The strong animals (ones making most profits such as Fender) will eat (buyout) other companies to get more of the food (income) for them since they control more of the food.

There will be a collapse in the future, it is how capitalism as a whole functions and will continue this way until there is a Leftist revolution or significant socialist economic reform is taken place.


Sorry if that went on for too long!

There is indeed a golden age among us, and indeed it is awesome, and will continue for many years tom come

[KJung]

Originally Posted by MysticMichael

I know a cat here in NYC who's a professional trombonist. He's never been busier!

MM

It would not surprise me if there weren't a few dozen trombonists working regularly in the largest cities. It is the other 5 or 6 thousand out there that are having the problems

[jasonbraatz]

Originally Posted by KJung

I would guess that the VAST majority of high end bass and gear sales are accounted for by baby boomers with decent day jobs reliving their past (meaning that many grew up with fond memories of garage bands and high school dance gigs, etc.). While I still play at a professional level, this describes me quite well in many ways.

Have you ever swung by sevenstring.org? It's for skinny-stringers, but you'd be surprised how many younger guys and gals (younger than me) are getting into custom gear earlier and in a big way. In the guitar world they're pushing the envelope further and further, and those guys are still going to want to play with bassists and drummers.

It just won't be music y'all olds want to listen to.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by jasonbraatz

Have you ever swung by sevenstring.org? It's for skinny-stringers, but you'd be surprised how many younger guys and gals (younger than me) are getting into custom gear earlier and in a big way. In the guitar world they're pushing the envelope further and further, and those guys are still going to want to play with bassists and drummers.

It just won't be music y'all olds want to listen to.

The amount of QUALITY 7 strings is very nice. I'll willingly admit that I wasn't too keen on 5 string basses and 7 string guitars because the B string (often detuned way further) sounded like poo.

Now I have this at home:



and this on layaway:



No real interest in spending time at sevenstring.org since it's mostly guitarists and jugga jugga metalz.

[Troph]

My first bass in 1993 was a "new" Lotus P-bass copy, purchased at now-defunct Memphis Musicians Warehouse. It was a package deal that included a flimsy gig bag, a noisy cable, and a 8" "Stone" practice combo amp that produced just about all tones except for bass. All of this was mine for only $299 of hard-earned lawn mowing money. (At the time, I thought it was a great deal, as compared to the entry-level MIM Fender P-bass, which was $329 I believe, and didn't include the extras.)

I had no clue at the time, but the Lotus wasn't actually a very good deal. It had crappy electronics, terrible action, and two years later I found out that the truss rod was broken. Such is the learning experience of buying entry-level guitars in the early 1990s...

I can't imagine I would have the same experience today. And judging from what I pay the neighborhood kid to mow my lawn, kids today have a significantly bigger budget than I did too...

[bmc]

So far, this thread has been very USA centric. I don't see the USA as the benchmark for market growth. Asian economies are growing and kids are buying up gear like crazy. That's where the growth is.

[Dbassmon]

There are more quality instruments available today at all price points than ever before. You can buy a Mexican Fender which rivals the American made versions, Squires, quality is way up., Indonesian Hofners, Sterling Rays, SX Fender Clones, prices starting at $150. These instruments are playable and sound good to great. There so many boutique makers out there designing and making the highest quality instruments.

This is the best time ever for bass selection at all price points.

Can we continue to supply quality wood is big question? Rosewood, Spruce, Ebony all getting harder to find and sustain.

Right now, you can get pro quality instrument for not very much money from many manufacturers or you can get the most exotic custom from many luthiers.... choice is wonderful! This is a good period in bass guitar history.

[Diesel Kilgore]

I agree with alot of what has been said. We are in a Golden Age. Semi due to boomers and semi due to Asian manufacturing and soon to be markets over there.

But I disagree that these instruments and all that comes with them will fade as boomers age. There are alot of their children playing music, me included, who are trying to buck the trend of electronic and computer generated sound.

I see it that my generation of almost 30 somethings, and actual 30 somethings are keeping our end up as well. Too old to be bothered with computer music who were music geeks that used real instruments in high school. Took lessons. Played horns or classic strings, cellos etc...

Alot of people my age have kept playing. Many have started families and set the instruments down or sold them. But just like the boomers one day they will pick them back up. Problem is there are not as many of us and probably wont have the kind of money to invest in high dollar stuff.

I think the Golden Age is here, but its not going to die fast or if at all IMO. One area it may die out in is the custom luthiery area.

I have great hope. My grouping of musical buddies ive come to know over the years (about 20) are all along the same page when it comes to being gear whores who are always checking out a new piece of gear when tax return season comes. We arent drooling and GASing about music software, unless its for recording, if you catch my drift.

[sevdog]

I read/skimmed through most of this thread so maybe I missed it but I don't see one mention of the effect the interwebs has had. When I bought my instruments as a kid/teenager I bought them at the local store. I lived (live) in a VERY music-centric city where there were relatively large amounts of instruments available to me, but there were plenty that I had never seen.

You couldn't wake up one day and say "gee I think I want a 1975 Gibson Ripper" and jump on the computer, find one, and order it sent to your front door. That just wasn't the way things worked.

Now, anyone with the money can get just about anything they want, whenever they want it, so the companies have to work within a completely different reality. Offshoring manufacturing and making a Spector for a couple hundred bucks is a virtual necessity because otherwise that kid is going to find a used one for a pretty darned good price and your company is going to be SOL.

[BrandenSteele]

If you are worried about local music stores going out of business you can order most things you would buy online through them. For example: I want this really awesome Ibanez 6 string bass but no music stores in my city have it. I could order it online or for the same price get it through the local store. Since 2 of the 4 music instrument stores in my city are official Ibanez dealer they can bring it down and sell it to me for the same price. Also, most local non-chain stores will go around 50 dollars down the price if you are doing this since it sometimes is more expensive, but they still make money so they agree.

SUPPORT LOCAL BUSINESS

[Kryptos]

Originally Posted by bmc

So far, this thread has been very USA centric. I don't see the USA as the benchmark for market growth. Asian economies are growing and kids are buying up gear like crazy. That's where the growth is.

+ Many.