Has GC-MF Become the Dumping ground for manufactures?

[millsbass5]

Hell, it sounds like a good business decision by them. Because their good stuff is gonna get thrashed by the majority of 14 year olds anyway. So, why not get 2nds?

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by slobake

Bought a really good Telecaster from GC in 1990 but that was a long time ago and maybe I just got lucky. I haven't bought anything from them since. There are 4 good independent music stores within a reasonable distance from here. I always buy from one of them, they usually have as much or more stock on hand than G.C.

SFBA is a good market for gear (I lived in SF for ~15 years), and if you're going to take the (hard) hit on CA sales tax from any of the GCI onlines anyway, you might as well work your advantage where you can with the locals.

Most people don't have access to that many local options, though.

[nukes_da_bass]

You are lucky if you have an Indy retailer in your town.
Boston is a GC town.
Course theres still Mr. Music in Allston, but there are only 5 other music stores left in the metro and GC are them.
What does this mean?
Buy from GC, buy online, or look out of state. You get what you get around here and you mostly get it from GC.

[slobake]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

SFBA is a good market for gear (I lived in SF for ~15 years), and if you're going to take the (hard) hit on CA sales tax from any of the GCI onlines anyway, you might as well work your advantage where you can with the locals.

Most people don't have access to that many local options, though.

Yes, we have Haight Ashbury music, B Steet Music, Gelb and Guitar Showcase all within 60 miles. There is also an interesting store called Subway guitars in Berkeley.
We used to have a store here called Black Market Guitars. All used equipment with an invenory that would embarass GC. I bought a silverface Princeton Reverb there for $200 probably some time around 1993. I had a choice of several Princetons, tweed, blackface and silver. I miss that place for sure.

[electracoyote]

I've been having the same thought.

I'm to the point where I won't buy any high-dollar with MF, and I only buy high-dollar through my local GC/on-line delivered to my door with the 30-day return gaurantee at my nearest brick and mortar.

Last time I tried to purchase a Gibson Les Paul via GC, we went through three, all unacceptable.

And the stuff I read here about GC MF quality problems, it's a shame. Some of this could be corrected if they inspected their inventory before shipping, but the frequency of QC stories that can't be corrected without a tech makes you wonder why they're getting so many.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by Bert Slide

I bought a roasted neck Stingray Classic from GC a year and a half ago. I played six MM's there at the time. They were all quality instruments and I would have been happy with any of them. I don't think MM makes too many duds or at least they don't let them leave the factory. The Fender basses I see at GC lately....

EBMM usually does have very good QC.

Go to the GC in Roseville MN and check out some of the ones they have in stock. They have a Bongo that I swear is a $200 Chinese knock off and two Ray's a 4 and a 5 that are crap. Bad paint and even worse fret work. Like I said, I was shocked that they ever left SLO.

[A-Step-Towards]

Having owned over 200 basses and played alot more I can say that not many have wowed me.

I have gotten alot of crap items from MF , but out of the 10 basses I have bought from them I made profit on, they have had steals at times.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by A-Step-Towards

Having owned over 200 basses and played alot more I can say that not many have wowed me.

I have gotten alot of crap items from MF , but out of the 10 basses I have bought from them I made profit on, they have had steals at times.

If you are getting them at factory second price that's okay.
I remember you got a bad Ric or two.

Why do so many bad Ric's come from MF?
I can drive over to St. Paul and walk into Willies and grab any Ric off the wall and it is as good as they get.
I believe Ric and Gibson are the two worse for dumping seconds on MF.

[butchblack]

Originally Posted by petrus61

This has kind of been a dirty little secret of MF's for a long time...whether its true or not, I don't know but if the last few basses I bought from them are Ny indication, then most likely. There are lots of guys I know who used to be involved with the MI industry, from suppliers, to manufacturers, to retailers that say that depending on the brand and item, MF most certainly is a dealer in factory seconds sold as firsts. Apparently, it's mainly guitars and basses and mostly Fender and Gibson stuff, with the better stuff reserved for such places as GC Hollywood and Manhattan, Bass Central, Sweetwater and other dealers who have more hand to hand contact with both the instruments and customers. Not sure if this is true but sure seems that way sometimes.

Also make me wonder if GC/MF, due to the volume they move get a better price from the manufacturers, but part of that is they don't get the really good ones.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by slobake

There is also an interesting store called Subway guitars in Berkeley.

"Interesting" is a tactful way of putting it. Haw!

World's biggest guitar graveyard. The bowels of that place must be seen to be believed. Just pure, degenerate hoarding neurosis and world-class fire hazard.

I don't think it's up to what it was in its heyday, and it's moved a time or two, but at its peak it was like something out of a low-budget horror film.

I went in there on a really spooky, drizzly Berkeley winter's night years ago and the very peculiar owner took an immediate very peculiar liking to me and dragged me through the whole rambling place, looking for a part he never found, spouting a nonstop droning patter of complete misinformation.

It totally creeped me out. The hair was standing up on the back of my neck the whole time.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by butchblack

Also make me wonder if GC/MF, due to the volume they move get a better price from the manufacturers, but part of that is they don't get the really good ones.

That's my thinking too.
All manufacturers have qc when they come down the line. I think the bad ones get mixed in with the big order going out to Missouri (GC,MF, Music 123 warehouse) and the factory s give them a better overall price.

[gurensan]

Originally Posted by hdracer

EBMM usually does have very good QC.

Go to the GC in Roseville MN and check out some of the ones they have in stock. They have a Bongo that I swear is a $200 Chinese knock off and two Ray's a 4 and a 5 that are crap. Bad paint and even worse fret work. Like I said, I was shocked that they ever left SLO.

Oh, sweet, you're literally 10 minutes from me. I'm in Mounds View.

The one in Roseville used to be awesome in the early 90's. I bought so much stuff from them. But then, ebay and CL have KILLED the twin cities' independent stores. The Maple Grove GC store actually has a bass department even though the only things decent there are Squiers. The one in Roseville moved the used section into the bass room and moved all the basses to a wall - that only fits about a dozen basses.

I miss Knut Koupee, Danny & Cindy's, that little store that used to be over on University in St. Paul off 280, and all the little stores that used to dot the landscape here. We still have Willie's (who oddly don't have near the vintage stuff they used to, but by no means are they goin' down) and Twin Town in Minneapolis, and Music-Go-Round tries to fit the bill but just can't do it - I bought a 78 fretless P-bass at the Roseville location; you'll NEVER see another one of those in a brick-and-mortar store here again until CL and ebay cease to exist.

I don't like ANYTHING at GC anymore.

[BIGEJ2]

I'm neutral on this topic. Probably bought a dozen basses from MF and maybe another 4 or 5 from GC and only had QC issues on two of them. Both were RIC's that were being blown out several years ago. Just recently purchased an EBMM Stingray 5 HH from MF with no issues at all.

Last year, I special ordered a Big Al 5 SSS and Stingray Classic 5 from the same EBMM PDN dealer. Both where sent back to EBMM with issues and were repaired.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by gurensan

Oh, sweet, you're literally 10 minutes from me. I'm in Mounds View.

The one in Roseville used to be awesome in the early 90's. I bought so much stuff from them. But then, ebay and CL have KILLED the twin cities' independent stores. The Maple Grove GC store actually has a bass department even though the only things decent there are Squiers. The one in Roseville moved the used section into the bass room and moved all the basses to a wall - that only fits about a dozen basses.

I miss Knut Koupee, Danny & Cindy's, that little store that used to be over on University in St. Paul off 280, and all the little stores that used to dot the landscape here. We still have that one in downtown St. Paul (forget the name) and Twin Town in Minneapolis, and Music-Go-Round tries to fit the bill but just can't do it - I bought a 78 fretless P-bass at the Roseville location; you'll NEVER see another one of those in a brick-and-mortar store here again until CL and ebay cease to exist.

I don't like ANYTHING at GC anymore.

We are extremely lucky here in the Twin Cities. We still have a lot of good stores. Planet Bass, My Music Store, American Guitar, Willies, Twin Town and if you take a nice drive down to Dave's Guitar Shop in La Crosse you're in for a great experience.

[A-Step-Towards]

Originally Posted by hdracer

If you are getting them at factory second price that's okay.
I remember you got a bad Ric or two.

Why do so many bad Ric's come from MF?
I can drive over to St. Paul and walk into Willies and grab any Ric off the wall and it is as good as they get.
I believe Ric and Gibson are the two worse for dumping seconds on MF.

I have bought 3 rics from Musicians friend.

1.) Piece of crap, honestly I wouldnt pay $500 for a bass with that bad of QC. It was embarassing.

2.) It was decent, nothing special and you would expect this bass to cost about $900 new max. I made $300 in proft on it, as a college student that was nice.

3.) This one was a mapleglo, great bass only paid $1080 and could make a killing on it if I sold it, its one of the few basses to wow me though and its staying with me.

I have bought 3 acoustic b200h heads , one was dead on arrival and I had to get a MF member here who worked for MF to get them to return it and replace it for the price I paid.

Most basses I have gotten from MF were automatically torn apart and parted including 2 Highway 1 fenders.Those had decent QC.

If you look in MF used section lots of stuff gets returned, alot is banged up , broken necks etc.

I only buy online when its the cheapest I can get it. I only buy new when it costs less to go new then used.

I honestly know Ric and Gibson just have bad QC, MF storing stuff for a year or two in a huge warehouse doesnt help.

Ton answer your question about MF having bad rics. Ric will get a order from MF for 100 Jetglo's and then bam build them all, so they know were there going. Maybe they speed these ones up?

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by A-Step-Towards

Ton answer your question about MF having bad rics. Ric will get a order from MF for 100 Jetglo's and then bam build them all, so they know were there going. Maybe they speed these ones up?

It's a mystery.

But the bottom line is that Gibson, Rickenbacker and to a lesser degree Fender ship crap simply because they can.

I used to work for a guy who used to say, "If you charge enough money, you can get away with anything." He was right. It really does work just like that.

If you have the brand equity and appeal to the jingo American buyer and charge at least twice what the product's worth, you're home and dry.

If the buyer has already bought into that many layers of what is basically stupidity testing, he's not going to notice bad top binding.

It's a "great" instrument BECAUSE it's a Gibson that was made in the U.S.A. and he paid $3000 for it. Enda story.

That's how the consumer mind works.

As an aside, how much did the 4003 you kept weigh?

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

It's a mystery.

But the bottom line is that Gibson, Rickenbacker and to a lesser degree Fender ship crap simply because they can.

I used to work for a guy who used to say, "If you charge enough money, you can get away with anything." He was right. It really does work just like that.

If you have the brand equity and appeal to the jingo American buyer and charge at least twice what the product's worth, you're home and dry.

If the buyer has already bought into that many layers of what is basically stupidity testing, he's not going to notice bad top binding.

It's a "great" instrument BECAUSE it's a Gibson that was made in the U.S.A. and he paid $3000 for it. Enda story.

That's how the consumer mind works.

As an aside, how much did the 4003 you kept weigh?

Besides your hyperbole about consumers,
How do you explain that I can walk into three different guitar stores around me and pull a Ric or Gibson off the wall and it is spot on?
No matter how much you love to bash Gibson, Ric and Fender there are a lot of great guitars and basses out there and most end up in good independent stores.
My Ric was spot on good (I just didn't like it and sold it)
My Gibson is perfect in every way, I could not ask for a better made bass.
My Fenders are very good.
My EBMM is great.
None of them came from a big box store.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by hdracer

How do you explain that I can walk into three different guitar stores around me and pull a Ric or Gibson off the wall and it is spot on?

I already explained that.

There's also the point that I have no idea of your competence in judging what "spot on" actually is.

I've been working on instruments for decades, and I've seen extremely few that were really "spot on," from any source, so that suggests to me that your standards are either a lot lower than mine or you've been extremely lucky.

The thing I've noticed about Gibsons is the more you spend the more flaws you buy. On their really simple designs in the low end, there's so little there to screw up that you can get a decent instrument if they just manage to get the alignment right. Pay more and you get the trademark Gibson crappy binding detailing and finish flaws plus whatever else they managed to get crossed up.

Of course, there's probably a lot of bench time there on setup detail (like filing the malleted saddle grooves, etc.), but basically there's not much to blow on a matte SG Special. Think about it.

[slobake]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

"Interesting" is a tactful way of putting it. Haw!

World's biggest guitar graveyard. The bowels of that place must be seen to be believed. Just pure, degenerate hoarding neurosis and world-class fire hazard.

I don't think it's up to what it was in its heyday, and it's moved a time or two, but at its peak it was like something out of a low-budget horror film.

I went in there on a really spooky, drizzly Berkeley winter's night years ago and the very peculiar owner took an immediate very peculiar liking to me and dragged me through the whole rambling place, looking for a part he never found, spouting a nonstop droning patter of complete misinformation.

It totally creeped me out. The hair was standing up on the back of my neck the whole time.

This made me laugh out loud. Yup, that's the place alright, you must have been with Fatdog

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by slobake

Yup, that's the place alright, you must have been with Fatdog

Yes, the unique Fatdawg, a Berkeley institution.

Someone told me about a shop in Arizona, of all places, that's like Fatdawg's guitar landfill spread, only many times larger. The mind boggles.