How hard is fretless?

[ba$$player]

Hearing isn't an issue. I have a really awesome cab with a tilt back leg plus the band is about to switch to IEMs. I do like to space out during shows and kind of "get lost" in the music. It sounds like that's not such a good idea with freless

[ba$$player]

I actually have three basses and this one isn't getting played so I think I'm gonna go for it so next comes questions about technique. Any tips for beginning flees players?

[bassvi]

Agree with all the posts about hearing yourself, listening, muscle memory, etc. I love to play fretless but it's a heckuva lot harder to consistently be in tune than on a fretted.... The abilitly to explore those small intervals close to but not quite in tune however to me is one of the most charming things about fretless and why I like it. If you don't hit a few slightly off notes, it wouldn't really sound like a fretless to me
Just saying, I like those notes when placed correctly. To me they are the blue notes. But then again, I would never call myself a fretless virtuoso. I just play it in situations where it fits, and have a blast when I get to.

[Clef_de_fa]

I kind of disagree with all the people saying you need to hear very well ... the thing is ... once you play a note and it isn't in tune it is already to late even if you correct the note with a glissando you still hit the wrong note.

[PluckyThump]

I have fun playing my fretless at home but I think if I ever brought it to rehearsal the guys in the band would pay me to never bring it again! My intonation isn't very good, especially higher up the neck. But I think my technique on fretted is better now that I've trained myself to be more precise on the fretless.

As far as tips go, just be patient with it, listen to yourself carefully and correct your sharp or flat notes by rolling your finger up or down. Try playing along with songs that you already know on fretted and see how it goes.

[SturmUndDrang]

Jaco pulled his frets out and he sounded ok. I bet he could still feel where the frets used to be after he filled them in. Wonder if he would have played in tune as well as he did on a normal fret less board?

[IronLung1986]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

I kind of disagree with all the people saying you need to hear very well ... the thing is ... once you play a note and it isn't in tune it is already to late even if you correct the note with a glissando you still hit the wrong note.

When you get good enough you'll hit notes accurately and consistently. Until then you must master the fine art of Correcting Screw-ups with Style.

[MrLenny1]

Not impossible but... it will take some work.
When I studied upright bass it took 3 hours a day, 7 days a week and 6 months
to get my intonation really good.
I'd suggest getting a cheap fretless and give it a try.
.

[3234718]

I think it's simple enough to play a fretless like a fretted bass if you're already proficient. Going beyond that obviously takes more work.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Clef_de_fa

I kind of disagree with all the people saying you need to hear very well ... the thing is ... once you play a note and it isn't in tune it is already to late even if you correct the note with a glissando you still hit the wrong note.

Actually, no, that's the essence of playing the FL. It's not about the flying fingers just happening to land in the right place like it is on the fretted. On the fretted, you just have to get somewhere in the neighborhood of the fret and the result is automatically in tune. That's why you can actually have terrible technique and still pound out in-tune notes on a fretted bass.

But on the FL, the technique is about listening and correcting. There's a pretty much 100% chance that you will be off either flat or sharp. So you have to plan on correcting basically 100% of the time.

That's how really good FL players always _sound_ in tune - they're off just as much as the rest of us but they correct their intonation on-the-fly so well that it works.

It's like singing - you have to listen and correct there all the time also, but good singers sound in tune regardless....

PS: You sometimes hear that playing FL improves your technique overall because of this requirement for always correcting your intonation. I don't know if that's necessarily true or not. I don't sound any better on fretted basses now than I did before I switched to FL and in fact have slightly more trouble with it now (I tend to land on top of the fret and often over it, accidentally fretting the next note).

You do develop a fretless-specific technique though for sure which may or may not help you on the fretted bass. I still click and clop and just generally sound weak and clacky on fretted so it didn't help me that much at all lol.

LS

[nukes_da_bass]

Just bought my first new fretless in 10 years. It's got no fret lines just side dots. Not the piece of cake I thought it would be, when I
Plugged in at practice I was a microtone sharp from the guitarist- I had to adjust on this particular bass to just inside the side dots.
Picked up my 6 string wishbass and I was automatically playing in position. Not all fretless are created equal, the new
Veilette will take many hours o woodsheding before I'm competent for stage and an audience.

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by unclejane

But on the FL, the technique is about listening and correcting. There's a pretty much 100% chance that you will be off either flat or sharp. So you have to plan on correcting basically 100% of the time.

That's how really good FL players always _sound_ in tune - they're off just as much as the rest of us but they correct their intonation on-the-fly so well that it works.


LS

Vibrato can cover a whole lot of near misses! If you never stop moving, you never actually commit to the wrong note! (My secret weapon anyway!)

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by ba$$player

A carpenter I know has the extra supplies and time to defret my extra bass for free. He is currently finishing his own bass. The bass is not getting played at shows and it would cost less to defret my extra bass than to buy a new one, plus I am already famiar with it. I just don't want to do this for one song and then never play it again.

Sometimes, frets go in a whole lot better than they come out. Who's responsible if the slots chip and flake when the frets come out? They have little barbs that make them stay in place and this usually wants to grab the wood on the way out, making the slot jagged and nasty. It sometimes requires sanding or planing the surface, in order to get a good result just from the cosmetic standpoint- what will be done with the slots?

Removing frets on a good instrument risks making it into "that used to be a good bass".

[1958Bassman]

Originally Posted by nukes_da_bass

Just bought my first new fretless in 10 years. It's got no fret lines just side dots. Not the piece of cake I thought it would be, when I
Plugged in at practice I was a microtone sharp from the guitarist- I had to adjust on this particular bass to just inside the side dots.
Picked up my 6 string wishbass and I was automatically playing in position. Not all fretless are created equal, the new
Veilette will take many hours o woodsheding before I'm competent for stage and an audience.

Sounds like the nut on the first fretless was cut too high and everything went sharp as you played and the intonation was off. Mine was all over the map until I checked the intonation and found that it wasn't even close on 3 out of 4 strings. It was a real PITA to play, although I did this about 1/2 hour into the first time I played it at home. It's great, now.

[giacomini]

I didn't find out in your posts: do you have more than one bass?

If you have one, no, don't defret it. If you have a couple, defret the least expensive.

Defretting will give you a lined fretless, which is great to learn to intonate. Jam with records and don't be too hard on you if you think you sound a little off tuning, it takes some practice to get it right, but be aware that even great fretless players are a little bit off and that's part of the fretless sound.

[baba]

Originally Posted by Hilton Marsh

Its only hard if you get your pubes caught in the strings. If that happens everything is difficult.

You're doing it wrong.

Lined fretless is almost immediately doable. The expression and feel takes a bit, but the lines help greatly with intonation.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Luke19Boarder

Disagree. If you read the OP's post - he has a bass that he is already comfortable with that doesn't currently get any use - and there is someone (with experience) willing to do it for free.

I defretted my first bass (squier p), and never regretted it. (did end up selling it, though)

The OP wants a fretless Cirrus. They can be found from time to time on ebay and the TB classifieds. I sold mine a few weeks ago (only because I am mostly a 6 string player and it was a 5).

[pnchad]

once again, a lot of disinformation, and some educated responses

you need to PRACTICE whatever you play - they are different animals

get a LINED fretless - there's no macho value to an unlined - when you're in a loud situation & on a dark stage, they are a reference - if your bass isn't intonated properly, get it done - a Veillette from Joe will be MUCH better intonated than any Wishbass

I have played FL for 40+ yrs - I have done whole gigs where the rest of the band didn't even know because the music called for a focused, tight, funky style and my intonation (on simple bass lines) is good enough I don't slide around

you will make MINOR corrections to your position as you play but the better you are the more MINOR they are - learn to play vibrato like a violinist NOT a guitarist - you roll the pad of your finger on a pivot point (hopefully very near the note) - watch double bassists, cellists, violinists - fretless has been around a LOT longer than fretted

enjoy the added expression you can achieve - especially on ballads

[polyrhythmia]

Keep in mind that the fingerboard on a defretted bass will likely get some wear from the strings, particularly if you use roundwound strings. I have a defretted Steinberger Spirit bass which shows some wear. I am wondering if it wouldn't be better to replace the fingerboard altogether with ebony or something like ebonol. Also, I don't think rosewood gives as much mwaah as a harder material. Dave

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by pnchad

once again, a lot of disinformation, and some educated responses

you need to PRACTICE whatever you play - they are different animals

get a LINED fretless - there's no macho value to an unlined - when you're in a loud situation & on a dark stage, they are a reference - if your bass isn't intonated properly, get it done - a Veillette from Joe will be MUCH better intonated than any Wishbass

I have played FL for 40+ yrs - I have done whole gigs where the rest of the band didn't even know because the music called for a focused, tight, funky style and my intonation (on simple bass lines) is good enough I don't slide around

you will make MINOR corrections to your position as you play but the better you are the more MINOR they are - learn to play vibrato like a violinist NOT a guitarist - you roll the pad of your finger on a pivot point (hopefully very near the note) - watch double bassists, cellists, violinists - fretless has been around a LOT longer than fretted

enjoy the added expression you can achieve - especially on ballads

The whole lined vs. unlined debate is mostly BS. There are many unlined players and many lined players. They generally stick with one or the other because that's how they learned to play fretless.