How will my Poly Finished Basses Age?

[petrus61]

I had an early 80's Schecter Jazz that was finished in the older style, very thin coat of poly. It wore from the spots where there were dings, most notably on the forearm contour. The paint just started flaking off to the point where it became a habit to just start flecking it off with my fingers between songs. Anyone who has ever stripped a MIM Fender bass knows that would NEVER happen today. The only thing that will remove that poly is a heatgun or torch and a paint scraper...seriously. I eventually stripped my Schecter down to it's natural finish and re-shot it in ReRanch Clear Nitro Satin...which started to show wear the first week! It's always an option to strip one of your Fenders and re-spray it in nitro. I'm sure there are some threads on it.

[jazzbo58]

If you look at the bass third from the right, you can see what my arm has done to the poly finish on my 1978 Jazz. It's down to the wood and smooth. It does have the chips, and chunks etc.



Cheers,
Jim

[A-Step-Towards]

The newer american fenders I can see aging a bit , getting smooth etc as the paint is pretty thin for poly but 1990s and pre 2008 fenders I cant see aging like a nitro bass, MIM fenders have paint a 1/4 inch thick.

[thedudebrah]

I have a 97 AMSTD P in oly white and when I take the guard off, you can see that is has aged quite a bit.

[Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by LWagner

I have a bunch of modern area Fender all with poly finishes. I always see beautiful pictures of old nitro bases that IMO look amazing aged. I know the current Fenders have a thick coat of poly. I've seen alot of poly finishes with chips and almost "chuncks" of the poly coming off. Will this be the fate of all poly basses as they grow old ?

If you take good care of the instrument, you will be rewarded by an instrument that looks new and well cared-for and that look will be maintained for a long, long time. I don't care for chips and finish damage, and take pride in keeping my instruments looking "as new". Poly finishes are a considerable help in that endeavor, but nothing last forever. If you play for hours every week, I'm sure that sooner or later there will be visible finish wear.

[RAMUSIC]

They won't! :P

I kid, if they're exposed to UV rays a lot there's a good chance the coloration will change somewhat (especially with lighter colors). Poly is also pretty prone to chipping, but only if you're abusive.

I'll be over here trying to sand the poly off and inhaling lovely fumes...

[meatwad]

My white 2000 StingRay has certainly yellowed with age (see pic), with a poly finish that's practically bulletproof. On the other hand, my 2011 AmStd Precision already shows some player wear on the body, above the pickup.

[Russell L]

Originally Posted by P Town

I have a new Am Dlx P, and have just ordered an Am Dlx J, both with a clear finish, and I was wondering if any substantial damage were to occurr to a clear poly finish, if it could be re-finished without it being obvious.

Yes.

[SturmUndDrang]

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

In my experience, it's the nitro lacquer that darkens over time from UV exposure, not the wood. I do a lot of restorations on 1960's Ampegs, and when I scrape off the old nitro lacquer, the bare 45 year old maple is about the same color as fresh maple. Now, it's true that if you left unfinished maple out in the sun, it will darken (and crack, and rot!). But the finish protects the wood from the sun.

The only places where the wood gets darkened is where the finish is cracked or chipped. When I scrape off a lacquer finish that has a bunch of age crack lines, there's a "suntan" of dark lines in the maple matching the pattern of the cracks. The lines are some combination of UV darkening and soaking in of grease and grime.

From what I've seen so far, modern polyester and polyurethane finishes don't significantly darken with age. Maybe they will have darkened some in 50 years, but I doubt it. Basses that I painted 15 years ago with polyurethane haven't shown any signs of darkening. The amber on the backs of the necks is a tint that I added when I sprayed it.

So, instruments finished in poly probably won't darken with age, but instruments finished in nitro lacquer almost certainly will. The modern water-based polyurethane-acrylics that many of us smaller luthiers are using these days also appear to be very stable and not likely to darken.

The important thing is the the integrity of the finish. If you chip it, seal it back up. Try not to expose it too much to direct sunlight. The modern finishes are much more resistant to sunlight, but too much heat can still cause them to buckle, shrink, and crack.

This seems surprising to me. I've seen urethane finished Maple floors get very gold. I would think that even though the polyurethane finish does not darken itself, since it is still a clear coat, the wood will still get darker due to it's reaction to UV exposure. Wouldn't think the the poly could block all those UV rays. Anybody out there who likes to leave their basses out in the sun a lot want to chime in?

[wraub]

MIJ Squier SQ Jazz, I think it's an 84, definitely poly-



wraub

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by wraub

MIJ Squier SQ Jazz, I think it's an 84, definitely poly-



wraub

That is one poly that will age. It was not very thick and very thin on my 3TS SQ's. Both of them show wear and one the back one is about down to bare wood in a small area.
On my 83' SQ bullet it looks like yours (black) with wear and scratches and chips.

The poly of the 70's and some 80's was thin and will fade and wear as some of my other basses thru the years have shown.

[Davo-London]

They will never age like nitro, which on one hand is a good thing, i.e. quality long-lasting finish. On the other hand - where's the mojo??

Davo

[fivestringgecko]

+1 to Davo

I've been looking into relicing lately for a project bass, and read about checking on nitro finishes which doesn't happen on poly. One dude tried to replicate it on poly by using light razor blade markings....... Nope. Lol

5sg.

[SturmUndDrang]

Originally Posted by Davo-London

They will never age like nitro, which on one hand is a good thing, i.e. quality long-lasting finish. On the other hand - where's the mojo??

Davo

Fixed that for ya. I would have gone with the vintage tint on the neck of my new G&L but that option only comes as a high gloss now and I prefered the feel of satin which is untinted. The extra ambering might have looked nice in time but I'm happy with the light look of the maple if it doesn't change.

[mellowgerman]

Originally Posted by 1958Bassman

And Twinkies.

Incorrect. Will all be eaten before the apocalypse since this model has been discontinued

[Bruce Johnson]

Well, you guys have obviously shown some examples of poly-finished basses that have yellowed. I'm surprised. In my own experience, I haven't seen it. Maybe it depends on the brand of paint, and whether it has UV inhibitors in it?

At the extreme end, a few years back, I did a real UV torture test. I had two of my Scroll Bass bodies which were finished and painted, but had to be scrapped due to being infested with boring beetles (a whole story in itself.....). I decided to do a test on the durability of the paint and the epoxy. The paint was GrafTec's KTM-9 water-based polyurethane-acrylic. One body is transparent cherry red/black sunburst; the other is gloss black. The grain was filled with West Systems epoxy. Some of the structural joints were done with West Systems, and some were done with Smith's Oak & Teak epoxy.

I hung the bodies outdoors in direct sunlight for 26 months, more than 2 years. I'm in Southern California, so they saw 12 hours of sunlight, about 345 days per year. Temperatures ranged from 50 to 110. And they got maybe 20 days of rain.

During that time, the paint didn't noticeably fade in color or turn yellow. I had a patch of tape covering one area on the red body so I could compare. The West Systems epoxy held up beautifully. The grain fill didn't sink in at all, which really surprised me.

However, the Smith's epoxy did gradually sink down at the centerline lamination seam. After about 16 months, the center seam had sunken in far enough that the paint cracked. Once that happened, moisture got in and, by about 20 months, the center lamination seam let go. The epoxy itself didn't dissolve or anything. The moisture got in and broke the bond between the epoxy and the wood.

Another factor that played into the eventual splitting of the center seam was the aluminum anchor bars that I epoxy down into cavities in the bodies. The heat caused the aluminum to expand, and they were slowly pushing the center seam apart. I learned something. Now I leave a bit of extra clearance at the two ends of the bars.

The lamination seams done with West Systems epoxy didn't shrink or let go at all. None of it shrank or popped up or did anything. I was impressed by that. I use West Systems epoxy for all the structural joints in my instruments now.

The Smith's epoxy is a softer, more pliable epoxy which is made for gluing difficult hardwoods. It's very strong, but I was disappointed that it shrank back so much from the sunlight exposure.

The KTM-9 sure impressed me. Where the center seams split, the paint peeled up a little bit, because moisture got underneath it. But everywhere else, it's still bonded down tightly, and it didn't fade or yellow.

I still have those two bodies here in my office. They have been indoors for about 3 years. Other than the split center seams (and the boring beetles!!!), I could buff them up and the paint would look good.

So, there's some real empirical testing. Nitro lacquer would have been fully age cracked and peeling off in a month or two under those conditions.

[baba]

One thing not mentioned that I've noticed on poly bodies is that forearm sweat will dull/cloud the finish where the forearm rests. I'm quite sure it could be restored with a power buffer since the coats are usually thick, but I've seen this on many poly basses that were regularly gigged.

[bassbully]

Originally Posted by fivestringgecko

+1 to Davo

I've been looking into relicing lately for a project bass, and read about checking on nitro finishes which doesn't happen on poly. One dude tried to replicate it on poly by using light razor blade markings....... Nope. Lol

5sg.

I have light cracks on my MIJ SQ's that look like checking in some places and they are poly..old poly.. but its poly.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by A-Step-Towards

The newer american fenders I can see aging a bit , getting smooth etc as the paint is pretty thin for poly but 1990s and pre 2008 fenders I cant see aging like a nitro bass, MIM fenders have paint a 1/4 inch thick.

Agreed - I'm fairly careful with my instruments, but dont' get crazy about it - and my '08 American Standard Jazz is showing more wear than my '76 P is... not that it's a big deal to me either way...


- georgestrings

[Pilgrim]

Bruce Johnson's info is really interesting.

I suspect that clear poly finishes would yellow or age more quickly than solid colors or tints. Generally speaking, clear finishes are more susceptible to damage from sunlight and other light sources.